36-40ft semi displacement

[timv]

As you may know from a previous post I am looking to buy a first boat and still undecided between planning and semi displacement. I would really love a 41+2 trader bit it is a bit out of my £50-60k budget and like the advantage of better fuel economy of a slightly smaller boat. Does anyone have any suggestions for a semi displacement 36-40ft similar to a trader and suggestion of preferred engines ? I assume I am correct in thinking a semi displace boat at 12-14knots will be more economical than the same size planning boat PER MILE .Thanks in advance for any advise. Tim

 

[superheat6k]

As you may know from a previous post I am looking to buy a first boat and still undecided between planning and semi displacement. I would really love a 41+2 trader bit it is a bit out of my £50-60k budget and like the advantage of better fuel economy of a slightly smaller boat. Does anyone have any suggestions for a semi displacement 36-40ft similar to a trader and suggestion of preferred engines ? I assume I am correct in thinking a semi displace boat at 12-14knots will be more economical than the same size planning boat PER MILE .Thanks in advance for any advise. Tim

I appreciate its a bit smaller but have you looked at a Corvette 32 ? Karl Farrant is the authority on these lovely boats.

Be wary with a semi planing hul at the suggested speed, boats are very inefficient climbing the hump, so normally either 8-10 knots below or 14 just above. Can also be uncomfortable at that speed.

 

[longjohnsilver]

No, I think your assumption is probably incorrect. A SD boat at those speeds will be pushing a huge amount of water using lots of fuel, whereas a lighter planing boat will has the hull form to get over the hump and then becomes more economical.

Not sure of the smallest Trader, but how about an Aquastar or a Grand Banks, both excellent boats. No doubt others will suggest other makes. Happy hunting!

 

[boddubbay]

Look at James dickens ,he has an aqua star 38 for £65,000 looks good value and a solid boat.

Steve

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

timv, if you're happy to consider a Trader, then maybe you should also look at other Taiwanese built motorboats which are usually also SD hulled as well. Off the top of my head, check out some other makes like Hi Star, Hershine, Horizon, Ocean Alexander, Neptune and President. These makes weren't as well marketed in the UK as Trader so tend to have less of a following and therefore have lower asking prices.
Yes the Aquastar 33/38 would certainly be worth looking at but they're very different boats to a Trader. Very seaworthy but much more narrow beamed and therefore considerably smaller inside. Be aware also that some older Aquastars were sold bare hulled for home or yard completion so check out interior fittings, wiring, plumbing etc. As ever don't buy anything without a thorough survey

 

[Spi D]

I think consumption per mile, which is a good measure when making operating budgets, differ more between boats than classification in planing, semi displacement or displacement types suggest.

Any boat will have best mpg speeds but these won't be the same for all. Eg. 12-14 knots might suit one, but not the other. Engines burn fuel in relation the work performed so when you demand hp you burn more fuel and any power used for not moving the boat forward (ie. pushing/dragging waves, holding bow high etc.) will ruin mpg.

Beyond fuel economy hull types also define the way you use the boat. If weather or sea state dictate speeds below planing, a planing hull isn't as much fun (or comfort) as an SD.


All IMO, of course

 

[Greg2]

I think consumption per mile, which is a good measure when making operating budgets, differ more between boats than classification in planing, semi displacement or displacement types suggest.

Any boat will have best mpg speeds but these won't be the same for all

+1

Our Broom 41 has a planing hull but has many of the characteristics of a semi-displacement hull. Importantly she is a good sea boat and deals with a seaway better than anything we have owned previously.

In your price bracket it may be worth considering a Broom Ocean 37, Continental 37 or Crown 37. All the same round bilged SD hull but different design on top. The Crown is probably the best in terms if layout.

They are getting on a big now so you may need to cast the net quite widely to find a good one but they are often cherished

 

[Paragon]

Hi Tim

I've sent you a PM

Regards

John

 

[rustybarge]

Be aware also that some older Aquastars were sold bare hulled for home or yard completion so check out interior fittings, wiring, plumbing etc. As ever don't buy anything without a thorough survey

In my opinion this is a much overlooked option here on the forum.

You can buy a brand new hull molding, 2014 year of manufacture, fit a reconditioned diesel/gearbox/prop, and when you come to sell you have something modern to attract lots of buyers, rather than a 30 year old tub with worn out gear.

Buy an old twin engined diesel powered boat, and if there's any engine problem engine replacement could easily cost £60k!!!!!
.....in fact that's why old boats are so cheap

There are lots of hull mouldings available in your budget, at about £500/ft approx. or a little bit more.

Mitchell 31
Aquastar 38
Seaward 28
Lochin 33

...don't forget the sea angling Catamarans, diesel and outboard [hull mouldings are more expensive] like the Cheetah range of work boats.

The big question you have to answer is how are you going to sell on an 25 year old boat in 10 years time?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You can buy a brand new hull molding, 2014 year of manufacture, fit a reconditioned diesel/gearbox/prop, and when you come to sell you have something modern to attract lots of buyer, rather than a 30 year old tub with worn out gear

Yes very true but then you have to fit the accommodation out to a standard that is at least as good as the Aquastar yard in order to be able to resell the boat. A boat with good mechanicals but a scruffy interior fit is going to be very difficult to sell on and either you have to be an excellent craftsman yourself or find a yard to do it in which case there might not be any cost saving over a fully built boat

 

[rustybarge]

Yes very true but then you have to fit the accommodation out to a standard that is at least as good as the Aquastar yard in order to be able to resell the boat. A boat with good mechanicals but a scruffy interior fit is going to be very difficult to sell on and either you have to be an excellent craftsman yourself or find a yard to do it in which case there might not be any cost saving over a fully built boat

That is a very good point!
But when you look at the interior of a 25 year old boat, however well it's fitted out, 'horrid' springs to mind. It might be built like a proverbial brick house, but would you want to spend your time in a plywood/lino/ shaggy carpet/net curtains/leatherette/formica..... floating 'lounge' from the sixties.

I rest my case.

 

[stuartwineberg]

The Hardy 36 is a classic in this category - I think there are a few threads commenting on them if you do a search - if you want my views as a previous owner please do PM me. On the speed front I agree with what is here - she was happy either displacing at around 8 knots or semi planing at around 12-14 - you could get her up into the late teens but you could see the fuel gauge moving!! Completely safe in all sorts of weather but could get a wall of spray up onto the flybridge at pretty much any speed as well. You would struggle at your budget though - the one on their brokerage site is £125k

As you may know from a previous post I am looking to buy a first boat and still undecided between planning and semi displacement. I would really love a 41+2 trader bit it is a bit out of my £50-60k budget and like the advantage of better fuel economy of a slightly smaller boat. Does anyone have any suggestions for a semi displacement 36-40ft similar to a trader and suggestion of preferred engines ? I assume I am correct in thinking a semi displace boat at 12-14knots will be more economical than the same size planning boat PER MILE .Thanks in advance for any advise. Tim

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That is a very good point!
But when you look at the interior of a 25 year old boat, however well it's fitted out, 'horrid' springs to mind. It might be built like a proverbial brick house, but would you want to spend your time in a plywood/lino/ shaggy carpet/net curtains/leatherette/formica..... floating 'lounge' from the sixties.

I rest my case.

Yes I agree but its not really a valid comparison. Are you going to be able to buy a new 38ft bare hull, fit recon engines/drives and fit the interior out, even to a modest standard, for the OP's budget of £50-60k? I'm not sure you can. I'm guessing you'd need a budget of £100-150k for that but somebody correct me if I'm wrong

 

[rustybarge]

Yes I agree but its not really a valid comparison. Are you going to be able to buy a new 38ft bare hull, fit recon engines/drives and fit the interior out, even to a modest standard, for the OP's budget of £50-60k? I'm not sure you can. I'm guessing you'd need a budget of £100-150k for that but somebody correct me if I'm wrong

Some guesstimates...
Hull £25k
Cummins 8ltr new/reconditioned eng/box £20k [the one manufactured new in Mexico, but classified as rebuilt for EU emissions]
no paint, gel coat.
prop shaft, tanks, controls, etc £5k

Fit out using Ikea cut down furniture, just like the big boys do......£5k

In or around £60k.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Some guesstimates...
Hull £25k
Cummins 8ltr new/reconditioned eng/box £20k [the one manufactured new in Mexico, but classified as rebuilt for EU emissions]
no paint, gel coat.
prop shaft, tanks, controls, etc £5k

Fit out using Ikea cut down furniture, just like the big boys do......£5k

In or around £60k.

Only one engine? The OP is probably going to want twins. If you can do all that for £60k, have you ever thought of becoming a boat builder and making your fortune?

 

[rustybarge]

Only one engine? The OP is probably going to want twins. If you can do all that for £60k, have you ever thought of becoming a boat builder and making your fortune?

Although the history of boat building is strewn with the wreckage of bankrupt businesses, the mark up on a new boats is enormous by the time a dealer gets his cut. I'm not saying the profit is enormous, how could it be after all the huge costs of delivery and commissioning etc.

Can't find the reference, but I seem to remember that mark up between the factory cost price and the retail dealer price is more than 100 percent.

So the basis of my argument is that the homebuilder can short circuit that huge differential by inputting his own labour.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Can't find the reference, but I seem to remember that mark up between the factory cost price and the retail dealer price is more than 100 percent.

I doubt that. I don't know any specifics about the boat building industry but for a typical construction machinery manufacturing business, the numbers go something like this. The manufacturer will typically mark up his build cost price by 30%, about 15% of which is to cover back office overheads and marketing costs, leaving the manufacturer with a net margin of 15%, some of which he might have to give away to help make a sale, leaving him with say a 10% net margin. The dealer might get a margin of say 15% but he may also have to give away some of that to make a sale, possibly leaving him with a margin of 7.5-10%. So, the total margin between sales price to the customer and cost price to the manufacturer may be as little as 30-35% in total and we haven't mentioned financing costs either. So if the boatbuilding business really does produce 100% gross margins, then I and a lot of others are in the wrong business

 

[Tranona]

Although the history of boat building is strewn with the wreckage of bankrupt businesses, the mark up on a new boats is enormous by the time a dealer gets his cut. I'm not saying the profit is enormous, how could it be after all the huge costs of delivery and commissioning etc.

Can't find the reference, but I seem to remember that mark up between the factory cost price and the retail dealer price is more than 100 percent.

So the basis of my argument is that the homebuilder can short circuit that huge differential by inputting his own labour.

Think you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Typically a bare hull is less than 20% of the total cost of the boat. So your £25k hull is a minimum of £125k total build cost - for a very basic boat. On this size of boat DIY is a real challenge, with 3-4000 man hours needed to complete a one off. Difficult to achieve the level of finish of a production boat so resale value is potentially low.

 

[rustybarge]

Think you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Typically a bare hull is less than 20% of the total cost of the boat. So your £25k hull is a minimum of £125k total build cost - for a very basic boat. On this size of boat DIY is a real challenge, with 3-4000 man hours needed to complete a one off. Difficult to achieve the level of finish of a production boat so resale value is potentially low.

4000hrs at £10/hr...........quite a saving, plus short circuiting the manufacturer/dealer markup...........Ok lets say the lower quality finish and resale price of a homebuilt would still be a better deal than an 30 year old boat with dubious high hours engines that could go' bang' at any minute.

 

[MYStargazer]

How about a bargain early Nelson...?

http://www.fynnmarine.co.uk/detailsq.php?fynn_id=218