3 Day Outlook

[claymore]

I realise this has probably been done to death but I really am convinced that safety is being compromised now the outlook has been dropped from Coastguard Weather Bulletins.
Sat in Plockton a week or so ago with all fine in the world. Planning a leisurely return to Tobermory via Loch Nevis, all the Forecasts had been N or NW 3 -4 for days and the synopsis reports seemed fairly innocuous and the next thing we get "Ardnamurchan to Cape Wrath - South Westerly 5 - 7...etc"

Anyone knowing the area will appreciate that it is a fairly exposed piece of water and not really the place to bashing into a Southwesterly near gale.

Last year we would have had an indication that this was a possibility and therefore could have planned accordingly - as it was we took the decision to leg it back in one go which was fine - and a good thing we did as the weather did come in.

Surely there must be something we can do to persuade the MCA or whoever that the ommission of the 3 day outlook denies leisure sailors of a vital part of their planning and is therefore a threat to safety?

 

[Evadne]

It would certainly get my vote: I don't have wifie on the boat, and you can't always get to an internet cafe to get a decent forecast more than 24 hours ahead, as we had to when waiting to try and cross Lyme Bay this summer.
You'd probably stand more chance of getting the CG to do it ojn safety grounds than getting the BBC to start giving proper forecasts, and outlooks, at sensible times.

 

[stevepick]

I do wonder why Stornoway and Brixham can do a 3 day fishermans forecast , yet Clyde don't. It is difficult enough getting access to the web on the west coast of scotland, and there have been concerns about Navtex ( which the CG designate the main source of MSI information) . I certainly haven't planned to get a Navtex - but I am assuming that is what is expected of us.

On a related note Claymore ( since your home ground is in the area) I have noted a complete failure of broadcast of MSI on Ch10 around the sound of luing and shuna and loch craignish. Towards the end of June returning to dunsatffnage and coming up through the SOL there was a chorus of requests for MSI repeats so it wasn't just me. Is there a problem?

Steve

 

[dom]

I must say thet I am in total agreement with you. The French provide an outlook and it and it makes so much sense that I cannot even wonder why it has stopped.

Have you thought of getting a Blackberry or one of the internet phones? There are several good value packages around. Then you can get you favourite weather websites, Easytide, Marina Details and so on. If you are offshore then there are condensed files available for sat phones. That is what I do.

 

[StugeronSteve]

Absolutely right, the 3 day general outlook is most certainly missed. Especially when away on our holiday cruises without access to t'internet etc.

 

[BlueChip]

I agree 100% with you, for me it was one of the most useful features of 490 navtex - having a good idea of what Sundays weather was to be on a Friday made made decisions on long weekend planning much safer.
I hope this srvice can be restored, if ever there was a worthy cause for YBW or the RYA to take up on our behalf this is it - who do we have to convince?

 

[Lizzie_B]

I don't see why they can't do as the US does and have the full (including 3 day outlook) weather forecast played continuously on a designated VHF channel and routinely updated.
It is not always possible to be present at the broadcast times.

For small boat sailors weather info is of vital safety importance.
How often do we hear CG, HM's and RNLI criticising people for being out in unsuitable weather.

This information needs to be as full and easily accessible as possible.

 

[claymore]

MCA Response

Just received this from the MCA in response to my email. I think it explains a lot!!
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Mr Swannie for your Email on the subject of the 3 day extended outlook.

Whereas I agree with you that an extended outlook is an important part of passage planning, the outlook that was provided as part of the inshore forecast consisted of only 20 words and covered the whole of the UK. It was never intended nor designed as a forecast on which safety critical decisions relating to passage planning should be based which is why it was substituted with a general synopsis.

An extended outlook is provided on Navtex.

Les Snaith
SAR Operations & Publications Manager



[/ QUOTE ]

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Re: MCA Response

In other words, a little bit of information could be dangerous so we would rather tell you nothing at all, and absolve ourselves if any responsibility for misleading you.

 

[StugeronSteve]

Re: MCA Response

Hmmmm. "Strong winds in the South West, on Monday", used to be sufficient to persuade me not to bother with a "long weekend" trip, or think about cutting a stay short if we were already tucked up somewhere.

 

[Brian_B]

Is it my imagination that it started raining at the same time as they stopped the 3 day outlook?
And the weather has been inclement since.
It's more than coincidence!
Bring back the outlook and bring back the sunshine.

 

[BlueChip]

Re: MCA Response

[ QUOTE ]
Just received this from the MCA in response to my email. I think it explains a lot!!
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Mr Swannie for your Email on the subject of the 3 day extended outlook.

Whereas I agree with you that an extended outlook is an important part of passage planning, the outlook that was provided as part of the inshore forecast consisted of only 20 words and covered the whole of the UK. It was never intended nor designed as a forecast on which safety critical decisions relating to passage planning should be based which is why it was substituted with a general synopsis.

An extended outlook is provided on Navtex.

Les Snaith
SAR Operations & Publications Manager



[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

AFAIK the extended outlook is no longer available on Navtex, I certainly havent seen it this year
Can anyone confirm this?

 

[claymore]

Re: MCA Response

Sgeir says he doesn't get the three day outlook on navtex. I think he said that being able to obtain the outlook probably influenced his decision to buy it in the first place

 

[Danny Jo]

Re: MCA Response

[ QUOTE ]
AFAIK the extended outlook is no longer available on Navtex, I certainly havent seen it this year

[/ QUOTE ] Umm. I don't bother setting the alarm for 0525 or rushing around looking for a pencil when the CG transmit weather bulletins because I get it all on Navtex. I was sceptical at first, but have since become an unrepentant addict. Of course there are downsides (how the dickens do I tell it not to send me details of Dutch submarine operations?) but the UK met office's extended outlook is the icing on the cake.

I should add that although Navtex gives me cake every day, some days it comes without the icing.

 

[Sgeir]

Re: MCA Response

[ QUOTE ]
the UK met office's extended outlook is the icing on the cake.

I should add that although Navtex gives me cake every day, some days it comes without the icing.

[/ QUOTE ]Claymore has, I am afraid, summed up my limited experience of Navtex. On the basis of earlier mails from Les Snaith and others at the Met Office, RYA, and MCA, and notwithstanding the freely acknowledged reception problems in the west of Scotland, I recently decided to buy a Navtex set, specifically for the extended (3-5 day) outlook for inshore waters.

I've only had a couple of weeks use from it, but, as yet, I have <u>not</u> received an extended (3-5 day) outlook for inshore waters from the Portpatrick transmitter. I use the national frequency during the day, and the international one overnight.

I intend resuming contact with these bodies later on in the year. Meanwhile, I totally agree with Claymore's comments. The absence of the 3-5 day outlook, in my view, makes serious passage planning difficult in areas like the west of Scotland. In my view, safety has been compromised.

 

[SoSageofLorn]

Re: MCA Response

I have a duel frequency Navtex, having just returned from a three week cruise in the same waters as Claymore, I can confirm that the only forecast giving an extended outlook was Malin Head and that seemed to be only once every couple of days.

It was however fortuitous that the weather placed us in Balamory at the same time as Claymore and I am now able to confirm that it is most definitely Sage! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[rickp]

Re: MCA Response

You're not getting this message then?

Rick

 

[Grumpybear]

Are you sure the transmitter hasn't been closed down? This happened at Fowey (alsp Ch 10) when the new timetable came in, but it has been reinstated after a storm of complaint - apparently the MCA told the Fowey harbourmaster it was OK to scrap Ch 10 as the RYA had agreed to it.

 

[stevepick]

Grumpy , I don't think so - google and the mca website don't cast up any news. Certainly get the Ch10 forecast closer to Oban, but it seems a large "hole" for vhf transmissions to disappear into , and Ch16 is fine. Just one of the "VHF oddities"?

 

[Sgeir]

Re: MCA Response

Thanks for that link - I've wondered where the Navtex messages were web published.

Yes, we do get that Navtex message from Portpatrick (O), which is the Extended Outlook on 518 kHz (International) for Lundy, Fastnet, Irish sea, Rockall, Malin, Hebrides, Bailey, Fair Isle, Faeroes and SE Iceland.

However, what concerns some of us has been the withdrawal of the extended three day outlook for UK inshore waters (ie days 3-5) that used to be published by the Met Office and broadcast by the CG. When the changes came in (in February of this year IIRC) we were assured that the extended three day outlook for UK inshore waters would be available on Navtex 490 kHz (National). I have received several emails to this effect, and I notice that that Frank Singleton's marvellous web page still says that Portpatrick (C), on 490 kHz, publishes the Inshore Waters Forecast and 3 Day National Outlook. They don't. They only broadcast the Inshore Forecast.

EDIT: The 490kHz broadcasts, and the coastguards' on Ch16, now include a summary at the beginning of the message. Since the concerns about the 3 day outlook have been raised, there has been a noticeable improvement in the quality of the general synopsis. However, they really are not as helpful as the old 3-day outlook, especially for yachts trying to plan fairly long passages in the Western Isles.