2nd time around again boat choice

[tcm]

I am looking at the 60ft+ Privilege 615 or earlier 65s, as I have been an engineeringly devotee of Jeantot’s central “nacelle” from back in the 70’s and sailed (badly) a P495 rtw = stretched 465 and yerknow I wouldn’t need to be in anything smaller or with lower rolling moment, so no mono’s . The central flying hull carries all the way forward to support the forestay, the structure, and gives supreme forward buoyancy if you casually fling the thing off waves at 17 knots as as am wont to do.

Yeah I looked at Swan 6 but ze rolling jeez i solo’d a J57 transat and can see why so many people do that mono transat just the once....

But anyways let me know ifthis is a rank stupid idea etc.

 

[AndrewB]

Jeez, tcm, 60ft+? no rolling? 17 kts? where you at?? How about a nice Cruise Liner, comes to us all in the end ...

 

[BurnitBlue]

I am looking at the 60ft+ Privilege 615 or earlier 65s, as I have been an engineeringly devotee of Jeantot’s central “nacelle” from back in the 70’s and sailed (badly) a P495 rtw = stretched 465 and yerknow I wouldn’t need to be in anything smaller or with lower rolling moment, so no mono’s . The central flying hull carries all the way forward to support the forestay, the structure, and gives supreme forward buoyancy if you casually fling the thing off waves at 17 knots as as am wont to do.

Yeah I looked at Swan 6 but ze rolling jeez i solo’d a J57 transat and can see why so many people do that mono transat just the once....

But anyways let me know ifthis is a rank stupid idea etc.

I know what you mean. I sailed a small 31 foot Prout Quest across the Atlantic to Caribbean, USA a few times. I switched to a monohull a few years ago and since then I have utterly failed to get anywhere. I have really tried to escape from the Med but as you say the rolling is a major problem. Sitting on the loo, cooking, reefing etc are actually dangerous. I sail single handed so the rolling is really a major danger. I am seriously considering buying another Catamaran although not in your league. I would like a 37 foot Prout.

For a second time around I understand that you have nothing to prove so comfort is a priority. So it is certainly not a stupid idea. However, for me, for my first time around, assuming I live that long, adventure and "passing the ultimate test" is a priority.

I know from experience that going Ocean in a 31 foot Catamaran is daft and I wonder if a 37 foot Prout will satisfy me. I can afford one of them. I am a bit nervous about a wrong decision because quite frankly I am running out of time. BTW I think that as a person gets older the sense of balance disappears hence my present difficulty with a rolling Monohull.
EDIT to remove the grammar that suggests I only have one hand. I sail single-handed with both hands intact.

 

[rivonia]

We sailed in our 11 meter cat from Cape town across the Sth Atlantic to the Caribean an up through the bahamas then up the inta coastal water way before crossing to Azores and onto Gib where we sold her. When I eventualy retired...We (my wife and I) decided that another Cat was ideal so we got another 11 meter and sailed her from the west coast of Scotland to Cyprus calling into all the countries on route-took us fuve years. 11 metr is the ideal size. In our oppinoin.

 

[Sybarite]

I am looking at the 60ft+ Privilege 615 or earlier 65s, as I have been an engineeringly devotee of Jeantot’s central “nacelle” from back in the 70’s and sailed (badly) a P495 rtw = stretched 465 and yerknow I wouldn’t need to be in anything smaller or with lower rolling moment, so no mono’s . The central flying hull carries all the way forward to support the forestay, the structure, and gives supreme forward buoyancy if you casually fling the thing off waves at 17 knots as as am wont to do.

Yeah I looked at Swan 6 but ze rolling jeez i solo’d a J57 transat and can see why so many people do that mono transat just the once....

But anyways let me know ifthis is a rank stupid idea etc.

This is what you want : 20% faster than a cat :-

http://www.neel-trimarans.com/fr/modele_bateau/neel-65/

 

[Fr J Hackett]

This is what you want : 20% faster than a cat :-

http://www.neel-trimarans.com/fr/modele_bateau/neel-65/

Oh you do like ugly boats, is there no hope for you wheres your soul man.

 

[Jegs]

Oh you do like ugly boats, is there no hope for you wheres your soul man.

It ain't a beauty, but when you're on it you can't see that and it might shift a bit.

ATB,

John G

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It ain't a beauty, but when you're on it you can't see that and it might shift a bit.

ATB,

John G

That's true of a few women I have known

 

[BurnitBlue]

With due respect to all those folk caught in Hurricane Irma I have been reminded why I dumped my first small Prout. It was in Hurricane Klaus when I was in the Bahamas. Many years ago, 1980's. I and many others had just moored in a Marina because of the warnings of the approaching hurricane. I had no time to feel smug to have found room in such a safe place. When chaos arrived as the marina workers threw every boats lines off their marina bollards. "Everyone get out, now," It was chaos as engines were started amid a melee of new arrivals which were trying to get in and the inside boats trying to get out. Lucky for me I was first out because I was last in and found a nice cove tucked in the with Mangroves. Unfortunately soon to be joined by lots of other boats. Not many catamarans in the 80's but two anchored in the bay because they were too wide to cuddle in with those of us who were already there. Klaus was no big deal as it turned out however the cats at anchor had a horrible time one owner swore that he went airborne at one time. Nobody really believed him but now I wonder. Anyway being left exposed like that because they were catamarans coupled with an earlier incident when I lifted a hull clear of the water leaving the lee of Monserrat sp made me think of a change to a monohull.

The Chinese phrase I use at the time about the consequences of being in the wrong place at the wrong time "The Tiger only leaps once" has stayed with me.

Hope the victims of Irma survive and recover. For myself my thoughts are back to Nicholson 32's so forget my first post, I have changed my mind again.

 

[geem]

With due respect to all those folk caught in Hurricane Irma I have been reminded why I dumped my first small Prout. It was in Hurricane Klaus when I was in the Bahamas. Many years ago, 1980's. I and many others had just moored in a Marina because of the warnings of the approaching hurricane. I had no time to feel smug to have found room in such a safe place. When chaos arrived as the marina workers threw every boats lines off their marina bollards. "Everyone get out, now," It was chaos as engines were started amid a melee of new arrivals which were trying to get in and the inside boats trying to get out. Lucky for me I was first out because I was last in and found a nice cove tucked in the with Mangroves. Unfortunately soon to be joined by lots of other boats. Not many catamarans in the 80's but two anchored in the bay because they were too wide to cuddle in with those of us who were already there. Klaus was no big deal as it turned out however the cats at anchor had a horrible time one owner swore that he went airborne at one time. Nobody really believed him but now I wonder. Anyway being left exposed like that because they were catamarans coupled with an earlier incident when I lifted a hull clear of the water leaving the lee of Monserrat sp made me think of a change to a monohull.

The Chinese phrase I use at the time about the consequences of being in the wrong place at the wrong time "The Tiger only leaps once" has stayed with me.

Hope the victims of Irma survive and recover. For myself my thoughts are back to Nicholson 32's so forget my first post, I have changed my mind again.

We are one of the rare breed that goes from owning catamarans for 16 years back to a monohull. After 5 years of owning an excellent monohull, we have no intention of going back to a catamaran any time soon.

 

[rwoofer]

We are one of the rare breed that goes from owning catamarans for 16 years back to a monohull. After 5 years of owning an excellent monohull, we have no intention of going back to a catamaran any time soon.

Can you share your reasons?

 

[geem]

Can you share your reasons?

There are many reasons. A small cat such as a Prout 37 or 38 doesn't have the carrying capacity of a 44ft monohull. The cat has the volume but if you fill it you get a very slow boat. Do the same on a good 44 monohull and the performance does not suffer. We can carry well over three tonnes of gear on the monohull. We have an 800 litre water tank and 450 litre diesel. We have a powerful engine 86hp and a generator with a work bench in an engine room. A small cat simply doesnt have good space for this kind of kit.
The sailing performance of modern cats is poor unless you go for something like an Outremmer. Lagoons and similar sail poorly. Having done a 1000 mile sail to windward in a cat we decided we needed something that could do this more effectively.
The cost of a good cat is prohibitive. For the money tied up in a decent 45+ft cat, we can have an excellent 44 monohull and money invested in property that pays us an income that allows us to retire early. Unless we are sailing directly down wind then we are generally faster than similar sized cats. Down wind the cat is more comfortable and faster but in our experience we rarely go straight down wind. A nice broad reach in our ketch is pure pleasure
Ocean sailing increaes the risk of being caught in poor weather at some point. We felt that in extreme weather we would have to look after the cat to keep her upright. A good monohull by comparison should look after us.

 

[rwoofer]

Geem, you clearly prioritise the sailing itself, so makes complete sense!

 

[BurnitBlue]

I have only sailed small cats and I recall a big problem while sailing was the tendency to "hobbyhorse" in a chop. I put it down to not enough weight to plough through the waves. Big cats may have the weight to power through, no idea on that.

 

[geem]

I have only sailed small cats and I recall a big problem while sailing was the tendency to "hobbyhorse" in a chop. I put it down to not enough weight to plough through the waves. Big cats may have the weight to power through, no idea on that.

We have sailed in company with an Antares 44 catamaran to windward. Going to windward they hobbyhourse. A two year old Antares 44 would set you back £700k. We were both heading for the same anchorage up wind. In our monohull we sailed hard on the wind in about 20 kts true. The sea was bumpy so we were reefed down. We didnt tack once and had a reasonably comfortable sail. The Antares sailed off the wind like cats do but was faster. They tacked several times but we beat them in to the anchorage. To be fair, there wasn't much difference but it shows the different sailing styles of mono vs cat. The cat was sailed very well. We both do the same thing but the cat with its huge extra space would set you back about £580k more than our monohull is worth. That buys a lot of property = income. The running costs of the monohull would be significantly cheaper with regard to to marina, haul out and storage

 

[tcm]

We have sailed in company with an Antares 44 catamaran to windward. Going to windward they hobbyhourse. A two year old Antares 44 would set you back £700k. We were both heading for the same anchorage up wind. In our monohull we sailed hard on the wind in about 20 kts true. The sea was bumpy so we were reefed down. We didnt tack once and had a reasonably comfortable sail. The Antares sailed off the wind like cats do but was faster. They tacked several times but we beat them in to the anchorage. To be fair, there wasn't much difference but it shows the different sailing styles of mono vs cat. The cat was sailed very well. We both do the same thing but the cat with its huge extra space would set you back about £580k more than our monohull is worth. That buys a lot of property = income. The running costs of the monohull would be significantly cheaper with regard to to marina, haul out and storage

Well, yeah, okay, so you prefer the money, and are enjoying a £120grand’s worth of mono with $580k in the bank or at least, not spent on boat.

But that’s a bit like saying that you can get around places loads cheaper on the bus, and not buy a car. Or buy a cheaper small car, just as fast in normal traffic and saves ££$ hurrah! So what’s the point of a Merc? Hm

You’ve simply found your OWN preferred price point and that’s fine ... but my original query was about the bigass catamarans, please?

 

[tcm]

I know what you mean. I sailed a small 31 foot Prout Quest across the Atlantic to Caribbean, USA a few times. I switched to a monohull a few years ago and since then I have utterly failed to get anywhere. I have really tried to escape from the Med but as you say the rolling is a major problem. Sitting on the loo, cooking, reefing etc are actually dangerous. I sail single handed so the rolling is really a major danger. I am seriously considering buying another Catamaran although not in your league. I would like a 37 foot Prout.

For a second time around I understand that you have nothing to prove so comfort is a priority. So it is certainly not a stupid idea. However, for me, for my first time around, assuming I live that long, adventure and "passing the ultimate test" is a priority.

I know from experience that going Ocean in a 31 foot Catamaran is daft and I wonder if a 37 foot Prout will satisfy me. I can afford one of them. I am a bit nervous about a wrong decision because quite frankly I am running out of time. BTW I think that as a person gets older the sense of balance disappears hence my present difficulty with a rolling Monohull.
EDIT to remove the grammar that suggests I only have one hand. I sail single-handed with both hands intact.

Thanks for this, and your close attention to grammar!

 

[geem]

Well, yeah, okay, so you prefer the money, and are enjoying a £120grand’s worth of mono with $580k in the bank or at least, not spent on boat.

But that’s a bit like saying that you can get around places loads cheaper on the bus, and not buy a car. Or buy a cheaper small car, just as fast in normal traffic and saves ££$ hurrah! So what’s the point of a Merc? Hm

You’ve simply found your OWN preferred price point and that’s fine ... but my original query was about the bigass catamarans, please?

I like to think I bought the Merc and decided not to spend the cash on the Bugatti......

 

[BurnitBlue]

I think that a catamaran below say 37 feet does not have that much extra space than say a 42 foot monohull so one of the major advantages of a catamaran can be achieved with a slightly bigger monohull.

Definitely not so when a catamaran of 60 feet would need a monohull of 75 -80 feet to compare. The speed, space and safety of an unballasted 60 foot catamaran is in a league of her own.

 

[stephen_h]

That's a big boat with big loads to handle. Will you always have enough crew when sailing
to sort things out when the unexpected happens? ( and it always does at some point )
Will you be restricted by draught and size?
Great boats even though I have never seen one that big!