240v on board cabling question

[Fascadale]

I'm planning to install a very simple 240v system this winter.

A panel socket in a cockpit cave locker connected to a garage consumer unit with a Ctek battery charger and two sockets wired in.

I'm uncertain as to which cable to use to connect the system: "Artic" cable seems the best recommended. Flexible, multi strand. All the components will be in dry parts of the boat

The cable lengths will be very short, less than 5metres in the whole system, with the maximum load ever being the charger, a fan heater and perhaps an electric kettle

Does this all sound reasonable and is there any cable more appropriate than the 2.5mm "Arctic"?

Thanks

 

[PCUK]

I used domestic twin and earth on my last boat for 30 years with no problems of any kind but this time I'm going for Arctic cable. I also use garage consumer units so I'd say you've got it pretty well right. Others may tell you need to spend a fortune on specialised stuff but I believe if it's been OK for 30 years then it's OK.

 

[VicS]

Flexible ( multistrand) cable is the requirement rather than solid conductor ( twin and earth) cable as used in house wiring

Arctic is a popular , although not the best, choice for shorepower cables because it remains flexible at low temperatutes which some flexible cables do not. I dont think it is necessary for the fixed internal wiring.

You should try to beg borrow or steal a copy of the latest edition (2014 ) of ISO 13297 which is the international standard for AC installations in small craft.

 

[prv]

I'm planning to install a very simple 240v system this winter.

A panel socket in a cockpit cave locker

If you fit that as your shore power input, the shore power cable will have a 240v cattle-prod on the end.

You need a panel-mounted plug, not socket.

Pete

 

[VicS]

If you fit that as your shore power input, the shore power cable will have a 240v cattle-prod on the end.

You need a panel-mounted plug, not socket.

Pete

This

or this

 

[Fascadale]

What a great forum this is!

Thank you gents...............that was almost a serious mistake

"Arctic is a popular , although not the best"...........any suggestions as to what is

 

[Heckler]

What a great forum this is!

Thank you gents...............that was almost a serious mistake

"Arctic is a popular , although not the best"...........any suggestions as to what is

As it is a fixed cable it doesnt really matter, this forum is great as a resource but sometimes people go OTT! The important thing is some flexible and of the right size. Household wiring is not recommended because of vibration and work hardening in the single strand BUT people do use it without probs as one of the comtributors says!
S

 

[Bru]

HO4, HO5 or HO7 rubber / neoprene cable is now preferred over arctic

HO4 is readily available from the likes of B&Q sold as pond pump cable.

HO7 is not so readily available but can be purchased on-line from http://www.essentialsupplies.co.uk/ which is where I source it

It's a few pence per metre more expensive but not significantly so

(The difference in specs between HO4. HO5 and HO7 is largely irrelevant in this context. HO4 has a rubber outer, HO5 and HO7 have neoprene outers, HO5 is self extinguishing, the others aren't, HO7 is more resistant to oils etc than HO4 or HO5 and so on. Don't sweat on it!)

Arctic is OK if it's all you can get and within the boat most people simply use normal domestic flex and it does the job even if it's not quite kosher

The one thing not to use is normal rigid core twin with earth (TWE)

Ideally, by the way, all cable on vessels ought to be tinned copper conductors but it's a mythical beast as far as mains cable is concerned this side of the pond (the 'Mericans have proper marine mains cable to US colour codes)

 

[prv]

"Arctic is a popular , although not the best"...........any suggestions as to what is

There are a few higher-spec cable types intended for building sites, farmyards, and other places where they'll be subject to heavy wear. I suppose the rolls-royce of shore power cables would use one of these. Hy-Tuf is the one I can remember off the top of my head.

That said, I'm not known for scrimping on materials for Ariam, and I was quite happy with arctic cable for my new shore power leads. It matters less for the internal stuff, but you might as well use the same - then you can cut off what you need for fixed wiring and use all the rest for the shore cable, leaving no waste.

Pete

 

[David2452]

Take care when buying "arctic" cable, arctic is not a spec and the usual stuff seen around marinas for shore leads sourced from Screwfix, B & Q et al is BS 6500 which is suited down to +5c, hardly arctic and why it feels stiff in winter. It is available to BS 7919 which is good down to -25 c but better still is HO7. All that said 6500 is perfectly adequate for properly supported fixed internal cabling. When terminating at screw down terminals be sure to use crimped bootlace ferules to protect the strands and remember soldering on low voltage AC on board is no longer permitted under ISO 13297. Further info.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAAahUKEwiRuqia0Y3IAhUICtsKHTW5BhM&url=http%3A%2F%2Felectrical.theiet.org%2Fwiring-matters%2F33%2Farctic-cables.cfm%3Ftype%3Dpdf&usg=AFQjCNGUQ3mZTcDjYW4tlh9XDBNtxcGg1w&cad=rja

 

[SiteSurfer]

Just hopping on here: the Internal wiring bit (ie: the power to the sockets from the distribution box etc) - should ideally use what type of cable? I am taking it that TCE (twin core earth as per normal household mains) is a no-no?

 

[Bru]

Just hopping on here: the Internal wiring bit (ie: the power to the sockets from the distribution box etc) - should ideally use what type of cable? I am taking it that TCE (twin core earth as per normal household mains) is a no-no?

If you mean rigid cored TWE (Twin with Earth) then yes, it's a no-no.

As per response earlier in this thread ..

My preference now is to use HO4 or HO7 flex however Arctic flex is perfectly acceptable and in reality most boats are wired up perfectly satisfactorily using domestic mains flex

 

[nigelmercier]

I used 2.5mm² Arctic for the external cable, and 1.5mm² standard flex for the wiring to the sockets from the CU with 16A MCBs.

 

[Jabs]

I'm planning to install a very simple 240v system this winter.

A panel socket in a cockpit cave locker connected to a garage consumer unit with a Ctek battery charger and two sockets wired in.

I'm uncertain as to which cable to use to connect the system: "Artic" cable seems the best recommended. Flexible, multi strand. All the components will be in dry parts of the boat

The cable lengths will be very short, less than 5metres in the whole system, with the maximum load ever being the charger, a fan heater and perhaps an electric kettle

Does this all sound reasonable and is there any cable more appropriate than the 2.5mm "Arctic"?

Thanks

I would strongly suggest a 600w kettle. Most today are 2000w and it's very easy to blow the marina supply if, for example, the fan heater, 2000w is on at the same time.

Are you fitting an immersion heater? If so, try to get 1000w version for the same reasons.

Tony

 

[nigelmercier]

I would strongly suggest a 600w kettle. Most today are 2000w and it's very easy to blow the marina supply if, for example, the fan heater, 2000w is on at the same time...

Or indeed, the air conditioning.

1kW to 1500W is good for a kettle, at 600W I'd be gasping.

 

[miyagimoon]

Flexible ( multistrand) cable is the requirement rather than solid conductor ( twin and earth) cable as used in house wiring

Arctic is a popular , although not the best, choice for shorepower cables because it remains flexible at low temperatutes which some flexible cables do not. I dont think it is necessary for the fixed internal wiring.

You should try to beg borrow or steal a copy of the latest edition (2014 ) of ISO 13297 which is the international standard for AC installations in small craft.

Try Here: https://xanthiona.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/iso-13297-ac-current.pdf I think its the 2000 edition but will be close enough for what you are looking for.

This may also prove useful: http://www.seafish.org/media/Publications/Part_10_Electrical_Installations_U15m.pdf

 

[prv]

1kW to 1500W is good for a kettle, at 600W I'd be gasping.

Aren't normal domestic kettles usually 3000W, being about the most you can pull out of a 13-amp socket?

Pete

 

[johnalison]

I think our kettle is 800W, but it is seldom used for anything more than two mugs, and if necessary, it can be filled with already how water, though on our boat this doesn't pass through the filter, so the time taken to boil is not much.

Although our boat is correctly wired, I find myself saying "plug" when referring to the relevant end of the shore cable, and "socket" for the fixed part, because that's what they look like.

 

[Strolls]

Just hopping on here: the Internal wiring bit (ie: the power to the sockets from the distribution box etc) - should ideally use what type of cable? I am taking it that TCE (twin core earth as per normal household mains) is a no-no?

If you mean rigid cored TWE (Twin with Earth) then yes, it's a no-no.

Could you possibly explain why, please?

When I read up about mains supplies a few weeks ago, the introductory sources I read on electrical cable said that rigid-cored was better (more conductive?) and less prone to corrosion than stranded cable, if it's in a static installation.

I wouldn't have thought the flex or vibration in a boat would be significant. Cable running from shore-in to charger, and from inverter to sockets should be run in a secure manner so that it can't move about.

I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to understand better.

 

[Bru]

Could you possibly explain why, please?.

Because boats are not rigid inflexible structures, they flex as well as vibrate and they expand and contract and it only takes tiny tiny little movements over a long enough period of time to cause failures in solid copper conductors

(And yes, houses expand and contract too but not to the same relative extent)