2000 Euro fine anchoring in Porto di Porto Empedocle, Silicy Any suggestions?

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dial-a-monkey

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2000 Euro fine anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy: Any suggestions?

This afternoon we received notice at anchor from the coastguard that we would be fined 2000 Euro for anchoring in the port of Empedocle - Southern Silicy. Apparently it's a new law from 2013 (Ordinance 32 - well we're not sure as we refused to sign anything not in English - so we didn't get a copy of the fine)

Before anchoring I emailed the coast guard and did as much research as possible. I also checked the harbor masters website but as there are hundreds of ordinances in a scanned pdf format it's extremely difficult to translate to English - and the ordinances aren't easy to understand once translated.

Noonsite and the cruiserwiki also note this harbor as an anchorage - and I read several sailing blogs of people who anchored here so I did my research!

We have translated this "ordinance 32" and from what we can work out it refers to merchant ships anchored in the harbor - not specifically to pleasure boats.

Anyways - We're off to the harbor masters office tomorrow - to debate the point - any tips?
(1) Is there "a better way" of dealing with Sicilian officials? any suggestions? Although I guess they are pretty much above the law here what ever they feel like doing they will.

(2) If we have to pay - does anyone know how to pay for harbour master fines? As It's impossible for us to get more than 400 Euros out in a day from our bank we would be stuck in this hell hole for weeks

(3)Is it worthwhile employing a lawyer? how would we find one?

(4) Can the coast guard impound our boat until we pay the fine ?

Any other suggestions? Info would be very much appreciated -

Thanks
 
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UPDATE If anyone is interested?: So we went to the coast guard with the helpful guy who manages the marina ( he doesn't speak English - my partner speaks a few words of Italian)...there was longish discussion at the C.G office , afterwards he assured us that we can just ignore the fine and there is nothing the coast guard can do...so this is despite the fact a Swedish cruiser paid the 2064 Euro fine a few months back??.and they filled out the fine paperwork, we just did't sign it...Hmm OK - not sure..it might get messy when we try to leave, so we're we here for the day to see if the situation changes

EDIT: In any case I would be careful when entering the port of Empedocle - Radio in, and check for rule changes - difficult unless you speak Italian - and it seems that there may also be some scrutiny of things like "proper safety equipment" - how you enter the port etc..there have been a lot of fines dished out to both local boats(some safety, harbor and fishing related) - and foreign boats for the anchoring thing
 
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Sounds pretty grim. I hope you get this sorted out. If the CG are just trying some quick and easy revenue generation, all they'll end up doing is alienating visitors and the local businesses will suffer. Stupid, short sighted officials.
 
Sounds like a nightmare.but if you lift anchor and sail away from sicily guess there's little they can do (unless stopped on passage but never seen coast guard do that.. ). We were stopped by guardia di finanza more than once; last time outside messina strait but officials were courteous. Good luck
 
Ah but the so-called "fine was in Italian, yes? So it *might* have included the word "responsabile" and then an amount, which means "responsible for" such and such amount (in other words you owe us this dosh, now) BUT it also means "liable to" .... in other words, it was the threat of a fine, not a fine, maybe?

I reckon a fine such as this would be awarded face to face and you'd be hop hop hopped off to get the loot at the nearest ATM or banks etc. Or in any case, it would have had some duplicate receipt paper bt attached. A4 bit of paper left on the boat - nah, or surely much less likely. I mean, they don't hand out 2k fines all the time so it would be quite an event for them?





(My tenuous experience in this regard is due to winning a transatlantic duel from St Martin to Horta in the Azores, instigated by a mate on his other same size 48ft catamerigue in erm about Msy 2009 by Sat phone when he was already 36 hours north of St Martin and I'm still in lagoon. So, careful as ever with all the preparattions, i ripped up the anchor asap and just made the early bridge out. He called to see if we'd give chase. I gave him false positions well behind him in nice neat progresion over the following 13 or so days, never gaining on him and sometimes apparently dropping back. In fact, i flew lots of saisl and if it was calm I burned the diesel.

Just over a day from Horta I announcd that my GPS had been having some sort of siezure for the entire trip to date! And I'd just turned it all off and then on again, and it was all showing correctly now, and rather amazingly that instead of being 145 miles behind him, in fact I was now 25 miles in front of him and pulling away, and docked about 5 hours ahead. Hah!

So anyways before and after he arrived we all got very badly behaved care of Peter's Cafe Sport and erm i may have slightly defaced one of his previous-years little painted boat signs that many of us W to East transat types splatter on the quayside, a right ole mess really, but very colourful. The following morning we found a "fine" of a 1000 euros attached to the boat, arg, but as with this thread (altho that was in Portuguese, not italian, i said it was tenuous....) , t'was only the threat of a fine. We must have been quite bad to have been threatend with a fine for defacing Horta of all ports, jeez. But then I saw some pix of one of the crew jumping off the top deck of Mirabella five just behind us at 3am, and then got out, jumnoped back on M5 and got on to the swim platform, mooned, and jumped in again. I do remember one crew guy said that I ought TELL him ot to do that, but I said ah but when he's on that other boat I'm not sure I'm his skipper , see? So, erm, whatever, go pick the bones out of that...
 
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So what was the out come , did you leave without any more problems ?

we stopped there a few times , always anchored out side the harbour , so far so good .
But I came across a note in Navionics which says anchor probit navy anchorage only , althought that the first we heard about it .

Re you other posting , I understand there going to be a NZ boat wintering at Raguse this year , but I think there back in the winter . bewhere marina foulds badly .
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 
Nasty people in Empledocle - tied up alongside an an unengined FV. Told I had to move, went over with the FVs and woken @ 03:00 because they wanted to go out.
Their most famous philosopher claimed the Gods would protect him if he leapt into the local caldera - his left sandal survived..

Apparently ONLY commercial vessels allowed in the port.

Assume the people referred to are the Guardia Costiera and NOT the Guardia di Finanza - the latter control immigration and tax, they have enormous powers and are not above using them. Guardia Costeira are limited in power if not in their self-importance.
If the latter you do need legal assistance and your boat may be at risk.
 
We left port this morning without paying the fine.

With the help of another local (who spoke English) we think this is how
things went: it appears that the very helpful Guiseppe, using his
contacts in the Coast Guards, managed to move the fine to a warning.
He told us we should have come and told him about this the minute we
arrived as it would have been a more certain outcome.

If there is still this fine against our name and boat we don't know for
certain.
What we do know is that the fine won't be enforced this time (it's like
a yellow card in a soccer match)... but it sounds like if anything else
would come up with the coast guards they wont be so lenient.

Still some uncertainty. So be assured we will contact every
coastguard/port we approach from now on to make sure what regulations
are in place.
 
At least here in Greece we have Mr & Mrs Heikell looking over us. Is there no equivalent well-informed pilot book for Italian waters, anymore? When we sailed in Italy over twelve years ago, there was the Thompsons. Are they still writing?
 
Steve C Cronin said:
At least here in Greece we have Mr & Mrs Heikell looking over us. Is there no equivalent well-informed pilot book for Italian waters, anymore? When we sailed in Italy over twelve years ago, there was the Thompsons. Are they still writing?
Click to expand...
Rod does do an Italian pilot
http://www.mediterraneansailing.info/rodheikell.htm#715531830
We used it but it was not very upto date 4 years ago, not sure about the current situation as there was a new one brought out in 2011
 
dial-a-monkey said:
We left port this morning without paying the fine.

With the help of another local (who spoke English) we think this is how
things went: it appears that the very helpful Guiseppe, using his
contacts in the Coast Guards, managed to move the fine to a warning.
He told us we should have come and told him about this the minute we
arrived as it would have been a more certain outcome.

If there is still this fine against our name and boat we don't know for
certain.
What we do know is that the fine won't be enforced this time (it's like
a yellow card in a soccer match)... but it sounds like if anything else
would come up with the coast guards they wont be so lenient.

Still some uncertainty. So be assured we will contact every
coastguard/port we approach from now on to make sure what regulations
are in place.
Click to expand...

Good result. Now, GET THE **** OUT OF DODGE!
 
You lucky. I' m Italian and a research on the net confirmed the coastguard has fined french and us sailing boats (but also italians) for anchoring in the harbour notwithstanding an ordnance of the harbourmaster. They suggest to call the CG but probably they don't know english.
 
jordanbasset: Following the cruising guide without checking the latest harbour masters "ordinances" will surely get you fined - there are many new rules every month - some seem ridiculous but will still land you with a heavy fine.

My impression is it seems there is strong pressure to remove old anchorages in Italy - you get the feeling they resent cruisers getting something for free.
 
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