2 Stroke or 4 Stroke?

[Steve_D]

having read posts about yours being bigger than mine I hesitate to ask this but here goes.

I am based in Guernsey and am looking to get a Sports Cruiser for skipping to the other Islands and occasionally to France. We are Looking at The Fletcher 19GTO, the thing is this, is the Yamaha Four stroke 115hp worth the extra £3k or so? over the 2 stroke. I know that they are quieter but are they better otherwise?

Can I expect a similar top speed?. is fuel economy that much better? I've seen quotes of 40% is this achievable?

Any input gratefully received

Regards

Steve D

 

[coliholic]

Have a look at the post about two weeks ago titled Anyone with a day Angler 21. Posted by someone from your part of the country too. Kim's reply explains the rule of thumb succinctly, though any consumption estimates are only ever going to be just that. Estimates. Since actual consumption will depend very much on how you use the boat. How long at flat out or do you knock off a few hundred rpm form top speed and conserve fuel better, set up and weight of the boat etc.

 

[jfm]

Unless you do high hours, 4 stroke not worth it imho. I bort a 125 merc last year brand new, for a 3-weeks-each-summer use boat, for £4700. The 4 stroke wd be £7300. The fuel economy will not pay for that difference unless high hours.

2-strokes of a few years ago are smelly, noisy and lumpy. But the new ones are instant starting, smooth and quiet. Nearly as quiet as 4 stroke

If you do decide 4 stroke, the yamaha 115 is excellent. Also look at Mercury 115, this uses the yamaha top end and mercury's own leg and gearbox. If you choose 2 stroke, mercury better imho. Also, the 2 strokes are badge engineered so always ask to buy the biggest hp for the price of the smallest. Eg merc 115 and 125 are identical except for carb jets and they cost the same trade price. So ask for the discounted 115 price and then say you'll have a 125 for that price. They'll hesitate then say yes.

You probly know this, but do not pay anything like list price for a 2 stroke, expect something like 30% off. Check Barnet Marine (who I use - they always throw in a free tacho) or Ron Hale (recommended by others on MBC) for a quote

On a boat your size do not go near a honda, even though heavily discounted now. Way too heavy imho

All the above is accurate in the SSL days, not sure if anything's changed now EPBarrus are in charge

 

[Steve_D]

I guess "High hours" are relative as well, I expect to use the boat a 2-3 times a week, with the occasional trip to Dielette roughly 60 miles round trip from May to Sept plus across to Sark on the odd nice day for the rest of the year.

If I time it right I can leave work at 4pm and be on the boat and heading for the pierheads by 4:25 so the intention is to make plenty of use of the investment. maybe 120 - 150 hours a year I don't know if that would count as High hours or not

Thanks for the input

Steve D

 

[DepSol]

HE MOST CERTAINLY WAS NOT FROM OUR NECK OF THE WOODS. He is a Crappeaud (pronounced Crappo).

Steve D send me a PM I will put you in touch with some people in the industry who can help, I also know of a few boats for sale. Have you got a marina berth. Seems like you and me is the only donkeys here.

Dom

 

[longjohnsilver]

Donkey?

Dom, don't you mean ASS? ;-))

 

[Geoffs]

I've got a Fletcher 19 GTS (Sterndrive). The coming season is my fourth and I've been very pleased with it. You should get 35 to 40 mph with 115HP. I get just over 40 wth 145hp Mercruiser sterndrive.

Personally, I prefer the sterndrive, as there is not a great lump on the back, makes for a much better swim platform. The only downside is that the carb. 3.0 litre engine is rather old technolgy. I use about 20 litres an hour at 20 knots. Maybe bit less with Soltron, but that's another story!

 

[kimhollamby]

Calm down, yellow card hand twitching!

Now don't force me to intervene in the wars of the islands...

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[DepSol]

Re: Calm down, yellow card hand twitching!

NOT FAIR!!!!

I'm just defending my territorial rights. People are always branding us with the same iron as the crappeauds. You must know having visited that we are two totaly seperate types of people, Guerns are nice sociable folk and Jersey folk marry their sisters

Only joking Rich, Pirate Queen, JointventureII and mfc1955.

Dom

Ps but they do marry their cousins

 

[byron]

Re: Calm down, yellow card hand twitching!

Did Jersey folk colonise Arkansas?

ô¿ô

 

[DepSol]

Re: Calm down, yellow card hand twitching!

No Battle Island

 

[stewart]

big 2 strokes

My boat has 2 x 550hp detroit deisels which are two strokes - seems unusual. What the pros/cons of this as compared to the normal 4 stroke for large deisels?

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: big 2 strokes

Thirst and noise downside, weight upside. Detroit 550s were a popular fit for a while until more efficient four strokes in that power bracket happened along.

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[Steve_D]

I have looked at the Sterndrive but have a couple of concerns the first is purchase price, which is a little higher, The second is servicing costs which seem to be higher than the OB.

The last is drying out, my gut feeling is that the OB can be raised higher out of the way than the SD, but I could be wrong and I'm not sure its an issue.

Performance wise as far as i can tell the 4.3l sterndrive delivers about the same performance/economy as the 115 four stroke OB.

Regards

Steve D

 

[Steve_D]

I've got my name down for a berth so we'll see how long that takes. I've got to finish the house before I'm allowed to get the boat so this is going to be the fastest DIY job ever!

I've got a mate that has the Fletcher 19GTO but he has a Merc 135 on the back which is very quick but seems a little thirsty for me, otherwise the boat looks like what we are after. Its just very difficult to get any sort of comparisons on 2/4 stroke, even the Yamaha site which has loads of performance data does not have a single one where they have put the same engine size ie 115 in 2 and 4 stroke on the same boat.

Yamahas figures indicate anything between 10 and 24 l/h with the four stroke at 4000 rpm but without the comparison on the same hull its fairly meaningless.

I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and get the four stroke as even with a payback period of several years I won't feel quite so guilty about pouring money/fossil fuels into it every week.

Regards

Steve D

 

[Geoffs]

Yes, the purchase price is higher, I believe current is about £20K with 3 litre and without trailer. I know where there are a couple on stock at the moment. Servicing, mine is about £300 per year, this includes stripping leg off, replacing prop seal and pump impeller.

When in 'trailer' position the leg is well above keel, drying out no problem. Tends to settle on starboard side, if I'd thought about it I'd have put depth transducer on port side.

I'm based at a Fletcher dealer, and they seem to sell 5 or 6 19's a year, only 1 has been an outboard since I've been there, AFAIK. Most people seem to keep them a couple of years and then move up. The GTS sells very quickly, secondhand, the outboard one has been up for sale for quite a while now, albeit with 90HP Mercury 2 stroke. The original owner kept it 6 months and traded up to a diesel 22 GTS (super boat, but £32k), the outboard drank vast amounts of fuel. We used to compare notes, he used 50% more than I did. I also cruise at lower rpm, so engine less obtrusive. 20 knots I'm doing about 2,900 rpm.


My experiences for what they are worth ;-)

 

[Geoffs]

Re: big 2 strokes

Detroit noisey? Maybe, but what a luverly noise!

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: big 2 strokes

Didn't say it wasn't lovely!

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[andyball]

The yamaha marine (US) site has some handy pdf's showing detailed consumption figures for all sorts of (yamaha) engines....you can ( in some cases) compare 2 /4 stroke consumption on the same hull : http://www.yamaha-motor.com/01marine/perfbull/performance_02.html

http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/matchmaker/ is the european version, but this is mainly higher rpm figures, though informative anyway.

I chose a 4-stroke after some thought, but got such a deal on a suzuki DF115, that I bought that instead of a yamaha.

The fuel useage seems exceptional at harbour speeds.

 

[boatmad2]

Re: Calm down, yellow card hand twitching!

Re Jersey folk and their sisters well if shes good enough for her brother shes good enough for me