12V passerelle in 24V boat?

[vas]

quick q,

seems to be coming across 12V s/h passerelles but MiToS is 24V.
I know in theory I can have a transformer (which you don't call transformer but something else that escapes me now...) to drop from 24V
I suppose you can also install a dedicated 180Ah battery and an intelligent charger for it (my Victron does only 24V in 2 banks) and be done with. I also know that I should NOT pick up 12V out of the 24V bank by simply wiring to one of the batteries

Anything wrong (other than the extra complexity) with this kludge?
Don't ask the load, got to check Besenzoni site for Amp loads but it's an older model so not easy, plus that's a few minute job (if that!) so not much of an issue me thinks.

cheers

V.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

quick q,

seems to be coming across 12V s/h passerelles but MiToS is 24V.
I know in theory I can have a transformer (which you don't call transformer but something else that escapes me now...) to drop from 24V
I suppose you can also install a dedicated 180Ah battery and an intelligent charger for it (my Victron does only 24V in 2 banks) and be done with. I also know that I should NOT pick up 12V out of the 24V bank by simply wiring to one of the batteries

Anything wrong (other than the extra complexity) with this kludge?
Don't ask the load, got to check Besenzoni site for Amp loads but it's an older model so not easy, plus that's a few minute job (if that!) so not much of an issue me thinks.

cheers

V.

Why not just build a 12v installation in the way you've suggested? Won't this be useful for other things (audio system, generator start etc)?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[jfm]

quick q,

seems to be coming across 12V s/h passerelles but MiToS is 24V.
I know in theory I can have a transformer (which you don't call transformer but something else that escapes me now...) to drop from 24V
I suppose you can also install a dedicated 180Ah battery and an intelligent charger for it (my Victron does only 24V in 2 banks) and be done with. I also know that I should NOT pick up 12V out of the 24V bank by simply wiring to one of the batteries

Anything wrong (other than the extra complexity) with this kludge?
Don't ask the load, got to check Besenzoni site for Amp loads but it's an older model so not easy, plus that's a few minute job (if that!) so not much of an issue me thinks.

cheers

V.

Yup I'd install a 12v battery with charger. Or swap the 12v DC motor on the hydraulic pack for a 24v (if it has a stnadard ISO flange) and use 24v-12v local droppers just for the solenoid valves

 

[vas]

Why not just build a 12v installation in the way you've suggested? Won't this be useful for other things (audio system, generator start etc)?

Cheers
Jimmy

er, I already have a 250X150X50 black box doing 24 to 12V conversion going straight to the el.panel for the autopilot, vhf, radio.
Gen start is via a small car battery that crapped out last winter and is to be done again.
so yes it is a possibility

Yup I'd install a 12v battery with charger. Or swap the 12v DC motor on the hydraulic pack for a 24v (if it has a stnadard ISO flange) and use 24v-12v local droppers just for the solenoid valves

However JFM, if I'm about to spend 1K on a s/h passerelle and need half that for a decent 12V charger/battery/panel etc it sort of defies the point
I might as well wait or try harder
Will be in Athens on Fri-Sat so I'll check another one and decide

[forgot, yes the swapping the 12V DC motor for a 24V one is a good idea, so I don't load the 12V system of the boat as it stands might go this route! ]

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

hm, got an offer accepted on a 12V passerelle so got to decide if I go ahead or not.

jtb idea of installing a 12V system is good BUT while on the way I need a 24V->12V dropper (or whatever you call it) since both my alternators are obviously 24V.

Now, it does make sense to find something like that and get current for the ligher loaded outputs of the Victron 24V60A charger installed and pass it through this something and charge the single battery that will do my gennie starter motor, the passerelle and whatnot.
Bear in mind I have 2X12V (180Ah 1000A cranking power) batteries for starter motors and 2X12VX2 (again same specs) batteries for service.
Victron seems to have to outputs both similar sized cables, haven't checked the specs of the machine online, will do.

This way I skip the 200+ intelligent 220V->12V charger for one plain battery. Correct?
Is there such a thing that's worth having or am I talking bull?

cheers

V.

 

[penfold]

A switched mode power supply will do the 24VDC-12VDC quite efficiently but high current ones are pricey; what's the ballpark starting current for the passerelle? A dedicated 12V battery and a low current charger might be cheaper if you have room for it.

 

[madorwhat]

hm, got an offer accepted on a 12V passerelle so got to decide if I go ahead or not.

jtb idea of installing a 12V system is good BUT while on the way I need a 24V->12V dropper (or whatever you call it) since both my alternators are obviously 24V.

Now, it does make sense to find something like that and get current for the ligher loaded outputs of the Victron 24V60A charger installed and pass it through this something and charge the single battery that will do my gennie starter motor, the passerelle and whatnot.
Bear in mind I have 2X12V (180Ah 1000A cranking power) batteries for starter motors and 2X12VX2 (again same specs) batteries for service.
Victron seems to have to outputs both similar sized cables, haven't checked the specs of the machine online, will do.

This way I skip the 200+ intelligent 220V->12V charger for one plain battery. Correct?
Is there such a thing that's worth having or am I talking bull?

cheers

V.

I sell dc powerpacks so find out which one is with it and I will see if I can get you a 24vdc motor for it

 

[jfm]

Swapping the motor for a 24v is still best bet, imho

Failing that, a 12v battery and a low-cost 230v trickle charger

AFAIK you cannot use a normal 24-12v dropper to take the charging output of a 24v alternator and charge a 12v battery. To do that you need a special charge converter, which is more like 28-14v dropper with some added electronics, specially made for this purpose. I have one installed on my boat to charge the 12v batts from the 24v engine alternators. It's made by mastervolt and I guess is a few hundred € so defeats the purpose of the exercise a bit.

 

[Bertramdriver]

Cheapest and simplest is to change to motor to 12 volts. Be aware of cable carrying capacity but otherwise best option

 

[vas]

thanks for the ideas guys,

yes JFM and BD, I know it make sense to have the serious load upped to 24V and then use my 10A small thing to run the solenoids and controls.
Actually got a quote from the company and the motor was over 500euro, :eek

I'll wait to get it in my hands and see what it looks like and how I can sort it out.
Maybe for this year i'll get a simplish 220V-12V charger, heck I've got the one I'm charging batteries in my garage, I could use that and turn it on everytime the gennie starts

report and pics end of next week when it hopefully arrives down here.

cheers

V.

 

[superheat6k]

Sorry for my ignorance, but can I ask why you can't simply jump a 12 v supply from between the batteries ? This is an occasional use item, and can be wired with its own isolator switch. Seems a lot simpler than the other methods being debated.

 

[vas]

Sorry for my ignorance, but can I ask why you can't simply jump a 12 v supply from between the batteries ? This is an occasional use item, and can be wired with its own isolator switch. Seems a lot simpler than the other methods being debated.

er,
I'm an architect and electrics/electronics is a bit of a hobby, but not studied it ever formally. In my book is not right to have two batteries (bigish things these 180Ah ones) in series to get to the 24V being charged as a pair by a 24V intelligent (how much intelligence is there, I don't know!) charger and then draw massive amounts of juice out of the one. Occasionally, but regularly and only from this one! I'd be happier if there was a way to alternate draw from the two batteries of the pair, but I doubt anyone ever thought that there's a job opportunity there...

having said that for testing and until I sort out a possible motor replacement I'll just do that, but don't tell anyone

cheers

V.

 

[Assassin]

The thing you don't know the name of is called a 24-12 volt inverter.

 

[vas]

The thing you don't know the name of is called a 24-12 volt inverter.

yep, but in order to run the passerelle off 24V I need a fairly beefy one of these (got a 10A one for radio/vhf and the like but that wont cut it)
Got a quote off the company (ALMAR) and that was 500euro+VAT for a 24V motor and paraphernalia. Defies the point when the passerelle will cost me 1300euro all in...

the big check is to see the motor and Amps it needs when I get it in my hands, then we can discuss feasible options.

cheers

V.