12v Autopilot vs Windvane selfsteering

[Hunter34]

I have been looking at buying a windvane self steering for the last few months but am still undecided.
Most seem to be around the same price £2500-3000 when you add all the bits on which seems is alot to spend on what is basically a clever linkage and an assortment of aluminium and stainless tubing.
Are they really value for money?
I have read all the arguments for a non electrical autopilot on long passages.I currently have an ST4000+ which I used to cross the Atlantic and sail around the Med at the cost of 2 drive belts .Now I want to go further (Panama is beckoning) I guess I would feel more confortable with a backup system but is it really necessary to go for the full non electric windvane.
I have never had the full electrical failiure that most windvane manufactures warn about and £2500-3000 buys alot of 12v backup autopilot.
Or am I just lucky to have gone for so long without a complete 12v meltdown that would have left me tied to the wheel for days on end.
I do like the idea of something steering the boat using the wind and some of the wind vanes look great bolted on the transom but are they really necessary these days with such efficient low cost 12v units on the market?

Any advice on how to spend my hard earned would be much appreciated.

Andrew

 

[Talbot]

Conventional wisdom is that the ST3000 and ST400 are great for cross channel hops and reasonable weather use, but are not built to withstand really robust continual useage. The new S1/S2 etc systems however are built for this and the linear drive's are beafier than the old ST5000 system (Linear drive is the ram that turns the rudder) Also the connection of the linear drive directly to the rudder means that it is independant of the steering system in the boat. Furthermore these new systems are MUCH better at steering and if linked to the new rate gyros become even better than human (measured 3% more speed + accuracy) which is why they are used on the long distance racing boats.

Notwithstanding this, the ST4000 has achieved a lot of crosings, and at the cost you could have a couple of complete spare systems.

Personally for the Pacific crossing, I prefer the more robust system.

I have no connection with raymarine and am primarily using their products as examples /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Redmond]

I have a ST4000 GP and have fitted a Monitor wind vane. Expensive but works brilliantly provided there is some wind.
We switched as the 4000 caused problems and although Raymarine have been very helpful we wanted the security of a non electrical system. The windvane does not have the steering accuracy of the electrical system, is possibly more sensative to trim but uses no power.
A friend uses his 6000 for channel crossings and the monitor for atlantic. His argument is that with a wheel and a centre cockpit the knitting takes some time to rig up. For us with a tiller and an aft cockpit it takes seconds.
If you were to change to a new S1/S2 system the comparable prices would look much closer. With the $ so low the monitor might be cheaper than you expect and the people are wonderful to deal with. In the end the best answer is to have both.

 

[jerryat]

I agree with your thoughts that £2000-£2500 buys a lot of back-up. We went through the same series of thoughts prior to our Transats/Medtrips and concluded that the autopilot was the way to go. We were right. But to be on the ultra safe side, we bought three (yes, three!!) ST2000's as reserves to our then 14 year old Autohelm 2000. Aside from using with one of the ST's once or twice when the sea conditions/angle of the wind required a quicker response time, the original steered the boat the whole time - and it's still working perfectly after almost 20 years.

Ok, our boat is extremely well balanced, so the auto pilot has little to do, even in fairly chunky cross-seas. We also kept the additional weight of a wind vane off the transom - something to be desired in a small boat in our view.

The problem we found with the wind vane we used on a friend's boat during another transat circuit, was that going down the Trade winds it was very erratic, taking a fair time to get the boat back on course in the rolling seas. The boat, a Rival 41 is renowned as a good sea boat with a substantial keel, so directional stability was not the problem, but the Aries did seem to make a meal of it in our view. Terrific in a a couple of filthy gales we had on the back to the Med. but then the apparent wind gave the vane a lot more oomph!! Useless in light winds from almost any direction.

Of course it's all a matter of personal opinion, money available and the directional characteristics of your boat, but we would not now consider a wind vane. Still got three brand new ST2000 back-ups ready for our next trip too!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

CHeers
Jerry

 

[Sea Devil]

I think Wind self steering only come into their own on the few long passages - Atlantic, Pacific (up to 3/4 weeks).

There were a couple of really tired unhappy boats between the Galapagos and the Marquesas that I passed who were exausted trying to helm day and night for weeks on end because their electronic autopilots had failed,. Used to pack it in at night and put on a strobe and sleep...

If you are two and you have to helm night and day for more than a week or so its pretty tiring but other than that the electronics win I suspect,

 

[tugboat]

If I was crossing the 'pond' with an autopilot I would be constantly listening for unhealthy noises and it would spoil my digestion! My Monitor is a delight to watch at work, and a larger lightweight vane takes care of all but the lightest airs. They need setting up properly with minimum friction but that is all. I would post a pic of mine at work but haven't plucked up the courage yet! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifStill I'm sure you've seen plenty in the mags.

 

[dulcibella]

I'd use my Monitor anywhere where there wasn't so much traffic as to make it unwise. I only use an electric helm is there is too little wind to give the 2 Kt or so of boat speed that the Monitor needs, and by that time I'd be motoring anyway.