12mm 3 strand nylon splice lewmar windlass probs

[simonfraser]

i have 12mm nylon with 8m chain on a vertical lewmar windlass fitted on a central support above the locker

the splice, when new, goes round the windlass and transitions down the hole
when a bit worn ? swollen it transitions out sideways into the chain locker and is not secure

i have tried a longer, a shorter splice and a tapered splice, all work at first, then fail again after 10 - 15 uses

tempted to make a splice with two strands only
the SWL of the rope is around 1000kg ? so two strands would be 600kg
wich is way over what my 9kg Knox / merry fisher 695 is ever going to exert

suggestions please

tnx

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Article here worth a read:

Rope-to-Chain Splice Test - Practical Sailor

 

[Boathook]

When I had rope and chain spliced together I always had to help the splice through / round the vertical windlass into the locker. This was with a back splice ?
The rope never flaked well into the locker so always needed help so I eventually went all chain accepting the weight issue.

 

[simonfraser]

When I had rope and chain spliced together I always had to help the splice through / round the vertical windlass into the locker. This was with a back splice ?
The rope never flaked well into the locker so always needed help so I eventually went all chain accepting the weight issue.

indeed, may have to go to all chain

your previous setup with a back splice, any concerns about the reduced strength with two core round the chain rather than three ?

what size boat / weather conditions did you experience ?

tnx

 

[Boathook]

indeed, may have to go to all chain

your previous setup with a back splice, any concerns about the reduced strength with two core round the chain rather than three ?

what size boat / weather conditions did you experience ?

tnx

I seem to remember that I got all 3 cores through the chain but I might have spread it over two links. It was a few years ago. The ideal rope for flaking is octoplat? but my windlass and many others don't recommend it as it does not grip.
Boat is a 9m Cat and I've had up to 30 knots wind but relatively 'sheltered' waters. The rode looks a straight line and a lot of tension / load.

 

[simonfraser]

agree octoplat does not work - tried it, sent it back, chandlers not impressed


'but I might have spread it over two links'

yes, that is another option, your boat will def pull more than my lighter small mobo

 

[Refueler]

If the rode you have at 12mm SWL is more than required ... why not reduce to a 10mm ?

Keep the 12mm as tow rope / other use ?

 

[simonfraser]

the gypsy states '12mm' rope needed

only the spiced bit that is causing the prob, so putting two strands in a long splice would be an option

hm, wonder what the breaking strain of the two strands in 12mm 3 strand nylon is .....

 

[Sticky Fingers]

.deleted

 

[stone beach]

On a previous boat I whipped the splice to keep it as small dia as possible. Plus the whipped part is less flexible so it didn't fall out of the chain path, it might work for you.
Also better to thin the three strands rather than drop one strand entirely

 

[simonfraser]

On a previous boat I whipped the splice to keep it as small dia as possible. Plus the whipped part is less flexible so it didn't fall out of the chain path, it might work for you.
Also better to thin the three strands rather than drop one strand entirely

tnx, yes whipping great thought, thin the 3 strands

 

[Refueler]

Reading that linked "Rope-to-Chain Splice Test - Practical Sailor"

Interesting ..... but I have to question one comment ... Long Splice can be 100% strength ???? No way ! NO bend / hitch / splice / binding will ever be 100% .. its impossible.

My back-up rope to chain connection is the 'chain splice' where strands are 'zig-zagged' through a reasonable length of chain and then ends whipped together inside links. The success is based on the friction of each passing through links ...
I would not use a Back Splice (personal choice) .... because opening up a rope to strand it - loses some of the ropes strength and also it relies on one chain link and subject to chafe.

A 3 strand rope gets its strength not only from the material - but also the reverse twist of strands that are then laid up in forward twist to create the final rope. When you open up to splice - you lose some of that.....

 

[Boathook]

@Refueler I used 14mm nylon with a breaking load of around 4.4 tonnes. If the splice weakens the rope by 50% that is 2.2 tonnes and even allowing another reduction for safe working load that is 1.1 tonnes.

If a link is going to fail it could be anywhere. I have in the past cut a back splice off from the chain and was surprised at how good the galvanising still was after many years. There was also no noticeable wear on the rope.
My windlass didn't recommend what you call a chain splice for chain to rope.

Anyway, I don't have to worry now as my rode is all chain as it fits in the locker better !

 

[Stemar]

I'm surprised that octoplait hasn't worked for some of you. My octoplait is fine in the windlass though, with a shallow locker, I have to help it down and away from the windlass.

 

[Refueler]

I still think a way fwd for OP is go down a size in rope ... so Lewmar recc'd 12mm ... that's fine - but OP already says that 12mm is OK for a few uses - then is not good ..... "bit worn ? swollen it transitions out sideways into the chain locker and is not secure".

But just to clear in my mind ... is the rope to chain joint having trouble with the windlass gypsy ? or in its drop into locker and stowage ?

Modern synthetic ropes as used today - do not swell (there is a tiny amount of moisture take-up, but nothing to create a problem) ... but some - especially 3 or 4 strand do work harden in early period of usage. That hardening up can lead to rope not wanting to follow desired path.

 

[Refueler]

I'm surprised that octoplait hasn't worked for some of you. My octoplait is fine in the windlass though, with a shallow locker, I have to help it down and away from the windlass.

Octoplait is designed to stay 'supple' because its laid up looser than other rope - especially 3 or 4 strand. This also makes it easier to splice / handle. I am surprised to read that some have it not working with their windlass ... given the more open form of the lay. But then of course gypsy is designed more for the chain - with some having that deeper channel to allow rope to sit into ...

If I was to replace my 3 strand back-up rode on one of my boats - Octoplait or similar would be my choice.