01-02 Squadron 58

[prinex]

The quest for the new old boat takes a new turn. I went with the wyfe looking for boats yet again - we had our eyes set on a '07 Targa 52 which is more or less the same kind of boat we have now just a bit bigger. "Yes nice" but that was it.
Chatting with the broker it turns out he has a 58 Squadron for sale (2001 model, MAN engines) so lets have a look. And once we get in to the cabin "Ohhhh THATS a real boat, this is perfect, look at this kitchen room for laundry a bath real size etc etc".
So now Im asking the forum yet again help on opinions on this boat, there is actually another one which is a 02 with Volvo V12 engines, both around 900 hours, the Man one was not used the last 3 years due Covid etc so it has a lot of cosmetic small issues which I dont really mind, the Volvo one is immaculate.
I did not dislike anything on the boat actually beside the inside stair to the fly which looked like an accident waiting to happen (but the outside stair to the fly is great), and the passerelle which makes you step on the seats which is a bit inconvenient.

 

[MapisM]

Great boat in more ways than one, and one of FL best sellers, in fact.
It stands to reason that you were impressed by the comparison with a Targa 52!
I believe she was mostly built with Volvos (D12, not V12), which were good engines.
To my knowledge, they only offered the Caterpillar 3406 as an alternative powerplant, which were even better, but never the MANs.
If you are sure that one with MANs does exist, I'd be curious to hear what the exact model is.

 

[Elessar]

Cosmetics can take more time and money than you think to fix.
Then people will come on and say Volvo is rubbish and MAN is perfect.
You will find more Volvo problems because there are more Volvo engines. A friend with MAN just had a huge bill (>£20k) to replace a gasket to fit an oil leak. Stuff happens.
It’s also easier to find a Volvo tech.
Pretty sure JFM had two 58s and he knows his boats. He wouldn’t buy a second if it wasn’t a good boat.
[Content removed]
By the way inside stairs are fantastic. When JFM got his 78s he had an inside stair added as a custom feature as they had dropped it as a feature. Never understand why they went out of favour.
Anyway, I’d buy the immaculate one.

 

[jrudge]

I have a s58 and it is hard to fault. D12 Volvo. There is lots of space. Utility off the galley useful ( and needed as the galley has no storage ).
Internal stairs I agree. We never use them. We have a matching pad on top so the front of helm area is one. Some people love them I don’t. There is no hand rail.

I have a gyro in mine which is transformational. Anything you want to know just ask.

 

[prinex]

> If you are sure that one with MANs does exist, I'd be curious to hear what the exact model is.

tbh the boat just arrived at the marina and the broker just told me "Man engines" but it could be well that they had CATs or Volvo, he wants to come back to me later in the week when its clear what exactly they have in the hands. Boat was left out of the water 3-4 years judging by the leaves we found everywhere, dirt around the window seals, some cushions etc we could not find, generally "looks like a boat left out of the water for years". But no water stains inside and made the tour to the marina on his own pwoer

I had a quick look in the engine rooms and they did not look like MANs.

I dont mind redoing the cosmetics if this means a big discount, the immaculate is really immaculate to last screw.

 

[prinex]

I have a gyro in mine which is transformational. Anything you want to know just ask.

You know this is on the first thing I had in mind, where to put the gyro. Glad to know there is a place somewhere (wyfe was already protesting "not in my laundry").

One thing I did not understand how do they get to the top of the engines ? Remove the carpet and there is an access hatch under ?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

By any chance do you have picture of the boat or some link to its brokerage page. As I never saw a Squadron 58 with Man engines, if my memory is serving me well.
I also have a brochure from 2001 and she was not offered with Man engines. Just to be sure the broker is not trying to sell you a 59 instead of the 58.

 

[jrudge]

My d12s are white so maybe the dealer thought as they were not green they were man ?
The floor lifts out if the need top access.

there are three sections. The first 2 come out in minutes. I lift the stbd most one if I need access to the stbd side ( water maker is there ). Middle one comes out easily as well.

The port one needs the sofa loosening ( not removing ). I have only had them out once when the injectors were removed for servicing. Engine room access is fine but tight. Stbd side for me is hard due to water maker but as above removing the floor is a 2 min job and access nicer anyway.

there is a ybw article on the gyro. In went In the bottom of the lazarette and the batteries moved to the port of the generator. Very neat

Seakeeper installation: How I stopped the rock on my Fairline Squadron 58

 

[Portofino]

Test drive them both .Simple really .
Presume the stored ones a huge price difference from the immaculate to a “ screw “ one ?
D 12 is the pick of the vp crop , still is fwiw .
As with any aged big motors get a proper engineers report .20 yrs dilutes any marque superiority or inferiority. Any motor that age starts from ground zero , equal.

Test them , the basic will they reach rated WOT rpm and not alarm off is good start to indicate.
1- the cooling apparatus is up to the job .If it isn’t they need a strip n clean = €€€
2- It’s propped correctly .Age , weight gain etc might have taken its toll .

If they both survive this ^^^ then it’s personal preference, re how much of a bargain and DIY pleasure restoring one Vs a turn key mega bucks “ last screw “ one .

Your test drive might revile a difference in sound , acceleration, running , smoothness , grunt etc .Then again it might not .

If one can’t make rated WOT ( clean bum + sterngear mandatory that’s a given when I recommend ) then you and the broker / seller need to underst snd why before proceeding.

The stored one presumes just got fresh AF and clean sterngear and some recommissioning of sorts to the motors ?

 

[Portofino]

Post a pic of the ER , even part of the engines .We will tell you what they are .
Broker should be correct though I would have thought if he knows boats ? If he’s got it wrong doesn’t say much about his knowledge depth .

If it’s any consolation mine was stored in a hanger for 4 seasons ( messy IT divorce scenario ) .Hence the low hrs.
How ever it was put back in , MAN recommissioned in June , did 40 hrs then put on the market that September.

So storing them is ok in principle , but for me it depends when you pick one up .
ideally at the end of season of use .Not just after it’s been plonked back in .That way a lot of risk is taken out by the recent usage , in my case 40 hrs .
You know new impellers, fresh fluids , all of them and anything else that pops up immediately after it’s bottom is wetted after a long sleep .

 

[benjenbav]

Can’t help with any technical issues on Squadron 58 other than I have friends who’ve owned and liked the model and I’ve always thought that it’s one of those boats that just looks ‘right’.

 

[MapisM]

My d12s are white so maybe the dealer thought as they were not green they were man ?

Talk about a dealer who doesn't have a clue... Cat engines are white either!

 

[prinex]

Broker should be correct though I would have thought if he knows boats ?

Yesterday (Sunday) there was just the CFO of the brokerage (there are usually 4-5 people working there but Sunday they are closed), so he just came down to the marina to show me the other boat (Targa 52), we luckily found the keys of the Squadron somewhere stowed away on the boat so we could get in but it was not a planned visit.

The 2002 one is on the market since a few years if I remember correctly, even if immaculated it may either have a too high price tag or some issues which are not obvious, is another broker so I have to find time to visit that one too.

Could also be Caterpillar engines, I will make a few pics next visit.

 

[jrudge]

Talk about a dealer who doesn't have a clue... Cat engines are white either!

My cat engines were white !

 

[scottie]

All engines can be painted any colour an it’s a great way to show leaks which is why people choose them

 

[volvopaul]

In past years we had the most experienced Fairline Squadron 58 owner in here giving help on a near daily basis , he had 2 of them in succession then moved to a 78 , sadly with all the drivel and falling out between forum members he jumped ship .
Had he not been pi55ed off with this place you would get more information than you could ever want .

The only help I’ll give you is the D12s are great , keep away from the MAN grenades

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

keep away from the MAN grenades

Lol calling Man grenades.... What would you call the current crop of Volvo D3/4/6/8/9 engines Nuclear weapons.

It is true that the Volvo D12-715 and previous iterations is very reliable, but on the torque and HP nos in the real heat they give less to that declared by Volvo.
And it is not a couple nos, as the power is always some digits less.

The Man R6 is very a good engine, and so is the 8 cylinder 800hp. And in real performance they make the Volvo D12 look like an old engine.
When you see the sportfish guys in the East Coast avoiding the Swedes there must be a very important reason.....
Since these guys do a minimum of 500 engine hours a year. You go to sportfish tournament, how many Volvo's you see....
If you are lucky a couple.

 

[Portofino]

Lightening this up a bit .

MANgrenade

Green grief

Clatterpillar . Or is it Craperplar ?

Multiple Trouble Units

Cumm aparts

As I said at 20 y old , they are all level .It’s all on condition , and service history etc etc .

If you can see something like this from near 20 y old same genre with no alarms or temp rises then that bodes well .
MAN 2876 inline 6 rated for 2200 rpm .Which later evolved into the R 6 .


The MAN grenade thing dates back to the late 90 s .It was a Bosch injector bad batch which long story short hosed and wrecked pistons ,They did a recall obviously and double obviously any still kicking by now ain’t gonna hose .
They also same period , going into the early noughties they had a set of duff valve keepers which failed .For the none tech guys this holds the valve stem to the spring .Failure means the piston hits the valve , and destroys that cylinder.All sorted by recall and the same “ obviously “ any still kicking , 2 decades later it ain’t gonna happen .MAN know the serial numbers of effected motors .If in doubt check .

There everyone happy now ?


The engine killer is overloading .That’s why you NEED to see the equivalent of this pic ^^^ .
Normally over propping and in particular while on the subject, but not relevant to the OP s choices , Arnesons are brutal on engine loads .

[Content removed]

 

[MapisM]

you NEED to see the equivalent of this pic

I can't for the life of me understand why it should be crucial for a boat to have...
...a dashboard with a faulty speedometer, fading labels, bubbling paint, and an awful chartplotter.

 

[westernman]

I can't for the life of me understand why it should be crucial for a boat to have...
...a dashboard with a faulty speedometer, fading labels, bubbling paint, and an awful chartplotter.

Actually an exhaust temperature display and alarm is much more useful than an engine load indication which will always be approximate.

You also forgot the 26 degree dead-rise.