Wrong propellers? Affect fuel consumption? Ferretti 430 sea trial..

[Rocksteadee]

Can I invite you to critique this ?

Additionally are you aware engine warranties are void if a boat can not reach Rpm @ WOT?
Hmm ? Of course realise the 430 tested is out of warranty,

Theres loadsa articles on WOT all consistent in what they say no contradictions .

Appreciate I get the feeling reading some folks reply’s to this post on here who’s boats struggle or even never reach rate rpm @ WOT are trying to dumb this down and pass it on .
The onus is on the seller to do what ever is necessary so @ WOT rated rpm can be demonstrated at a sea trial .

Wide-Open Throttle - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine

Read a few articles, hundreds of words to say “prop too big, engine overloaded, reduced life”
Took me just 7
And it was not overly obvious of that conclusion

 

[MapisM]

Wide-Open Throttle - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine

Good article, as many published by that PBB magazine in general and that author specifically.
I don't think he's right when he says that electronic engines are automatically de-rated when overloaded, though.
We debated this years ago with LS1, who with all due respect for D'Antonio forgot more about diesel engines than the latter will ever learn.
IIRC, he told us that the subject was extensively debated, also with other engine manufacturers (on top of the one he represented), back in the days when electronic control for diesel was beginning to be standard.
And they all agreed to NOT implement a de-rating dependant on running conditions, not because it would have been difficult, but just for legal/liability reasons.
Therefore, the only electronic trick for engine protection is the switch to limp mode, but that's only for serious faults.
As triggered by some sensor, anyway - whether the fault is real or in the sensor itself, in an electrical contact, etc., that's another matter altogether.
Regardless, limp mode and de-rating when overloaded are two very different things, and I tend to trust LS1 who said that the latter is NOT implemented in engine ECUs.
Btw, also the fuel burn numbers written on the piece of paper of post #34 suggest that there was no de-rating going on, in spite of the clearly overloaded condition.

 

[Portofino]

Good article, as many published by that PBB magazine in general and that author specifically.
I don't think he's right when he says that electronic engines are automatically de-rated when overloaded, though.
We debated this years ago with LS1, who with all due respect for D'Antonio forgot more about diesel engines than the latter will ever learn.
IIRC, he told us that the subject was extensively debated, also with other engine manufacturers (on top of the one he represented), back in the days when electronic control for diesel was beginning to be standard.
And they all agreed to NOT implement a de-rating dependant on running conditions, not because it would have been difficult, but just for legal/liability reasons.
Therefore, the only electronic trick for engine protection is the switch to limp mode, but that's only for serious faults.
As triggered by some sensor, anyway - whether the fault is real or in the sensor itself, in an electrical contact, etc., that's another matter altogether.
Regardless, limp mode and de-rating when overloaded are two very different things, and I tend to trust LS1 who said that the latter is NOT implemented in engine ECUs.
Btw, also the fuel burn numbers written on the piece of paper of post #34 suggest that there was no de-rating going on, in spite of the clearly overloaded condition.

Yup that was the reason I wanted to know the actual sea trials fuel burn at the 2430 rpm ( which the op can,t provide ) to compare with the owners note .To verify and cross check to exactly how much electrotwackery is going on ...if any ?
@Rocksteadee, we seem to be on the same hymn sheet I just used those links to evidence why iam pushing back on the “dustbin diagnosis “ of fouled bottom ONLY etc .Remember it supposed to have had diver attend the day before and the current owner says it never exceeds the 2430 rpm .
Sure a slight drop off would be acceptable say 2540 for WOT of 2600 , but as I say you really need to see the Ferretti spec sheets like have posted above earlier to see brand new 1/2 fluids 2710 or 2685 or what ever .

So the seatrial would be 2540 from 2685 or what ever =with the said alleged “ diver “ clean not as good as a yard jobbie .

 

[MapisM]

I tested one last Sep with 60 hrs it made 42 knots and 2430 rpm ....saw it myself.

Porto, if by chance you are considering a 55, beware of the gearbox. According to the seatrial report you posted, they mated the ZF-550V to the 1360hp engines, which is a joke, and would not even be covered by ZF warranty.
That's a g/box rated for 1207hp @ 2300, which means that it's not adequate even for the 1224hp version of the same block.
Which is in fact the engine that Deleted User has on his boat, but correctly mated to the ZF-665V gearbox instead.
I'm at a loss in understanding how the same builder could make such gross mistake on the Itama 55.
I saw in your post that it was the first 55 built with that powerplant, but that's not a justification, in my books.

 

[Portofino]

Porto, if by chance you are considering a 55, beware of the gearbox. According to the seatrial report you posted, they mated the ZF-550V to the 1360hp engines, which is a joke, and would not even be covered by ZF warranty.
That's a g/box rated for 1207hp @ 2300, which means that it's not adequate even for the 1224hp version of the same block.
Which is in fact the engine that Deleted User has on his boat, but correctly mated to the ZF-665V gearbox instead.
I'm at a loss in understanding how the same builder could make such gross mistake on the Itama 55.
I saw in your post that it was the first 55 built with that powerplant, but that's not a justification, in my books.

Thx for the tip .
No I wouldn’t go for a FG version anyhow .
Aside any future prospective s I presume would be reassured by now 10 + years + circa 800 to 1200 hrs that any G box or other mechanical weaknesses has manifested itself by now .Suspect a typo ?
How ever if not there’s no chatter in the tiny Itama community of any mechanical issues .
At that size an older 60 is the one from circa 2004 down , for 1/2 the price of a FG 55 leaving plenty of refit € s .
Some of those 60 s come with the then 1550 MAN s ...beasts .

 

[MapisM]

I can't tell exactly when the 1550 was introduced, but it's labelled as "NEW" in a 2009 brochure of Ranieri Tonissi which I have in my files.
My guess is that around 2004 they might have used the D2842LE404, a rather rare engines of the same generation as yours, with electronic governor but not yet CR, with a 1300hp output.

 

[Portofino]

I can't tell exactly when the 1550 was introduced, but it's labelled as "NEW" in a 2009 brochure of Ranieri Tonissi which I have in my files.
My guess is that around 2004 they might have used the D2842LE404, a rather rare engines of the same generation as yours, with electronic governor but not yet CR, with a 1300hp output.

Yes that’s correct FG fitted the 1550 , s
The 1300 was good for 42 knots much as the current 62 fwiw , and the 1550 which came later excess of 50 knots , cruise low 40 s .

https://imgur.com/a/4nJQ4i3

 

[Portofino]

A mag set of figures to base a sea trial on .Sorry for the TD , but it’s not as if the F 430 numbers are a secret !

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/te...jZCBVnaba5h-3I_oKgXhb3OqHDtYP4FCxPH2U95faHP58

 

[mcanderson]

L, what are plans for leaving the U.K.? Still sticking with the 16th?

 

[Portofino]

L, what are plans for leaving the U.K.? Still sticking with the 16th?

Yes .
Been in touch with the CH embassy today , spooky !
Swiss allow 2 nd home owners , from any state with any passport to do land management, crop the hay , etc to enter if you down load a pro forma from the UK embassy website . Currently now from D +A but not Fr until later iirc 16 June ?
Anyhow Basel is fine for us .

Its just escaping by car ( dog + will do a 3/12 stint ) from Brexit island .
Also for you you can I think “ pass through CH “ .
Italy allows us in from June the 4 th ....but no use .As we plan to be in Fr on the 16 th .

With that one the CH have not given a date to allow folks back from IT .
But no worries as we normally spend 2/3 weeks on the boat then rtn to CH for grass management .
Any how plan B if the rtn back is not viable then we will go our Antibes residence and rtn to CH from Fr via GVA .

So a triangle .

Its just getting out / escaping the U.K. , ......

16 th waiting for the frogs to let us in .
Passing through Fr I think you just fill in a self cert pro forma I think ?

I guess the quarantine does not apply for you being in D for now ......but at the border suspect you might need to self certify.
It needs to be paper ...so downloaded and signed to show the border guys ....I think ?

For the benefit of others ..we don’t consider ourselves as tourists .....just living on different sites sleeping in own beds .

 

[MapisM]

A mag set of figures to base a sea trial on.

Nice article, thanks for sharing it.
I find it particularly interesting because that boat, in spite of the name, is exactly as long as mine.
A bit less beamy and heavy, and obviously with deeper V (though not THAT deep, at 20°).
So, not such a crazy comparison, overall.
And interestingly, she burns MUCH more at any speed, which confirms that it's not surprising if yours burns not much less than mine.
That's only true aside from when surface drives really come into their own at 30+ kts, obviously.
In fact, my boat reaches 33kts WOT burning 315 l/h, while the Ita 60 makes 37.6 kts with "only" 320 l/h, which is remarkable indeed.
It doesn't make any sense to cruise at anything less than 30kts, with her!
Out of idle curiosity, engines aside, do you possibly know if the hull still came from one of the Amati moulds, or was a FG new development?

 

[Portofino]

I think in fact know it’s an Amarti hull , he fitted the then available 1300 ,s pre 2004 . Are you sure it’s on Arnies ?
Did you notice the poor by any standard 50 figures ....what a clanger thats NOT an Amarti hull it’s pure FG .

Management wise in the late noughties FG were all over the place .
How to take a successful big business and make it a small business ......sell to to then FG and wait

 

[MapisM]

Are you sure it’s on Arnies ?

I'm sure she isn't, actually: ZF SeaRex, according to the review.
But still surface transmissions anyhow!

I didn't check the 50 before, but yep, now I see what you mean.