Wrong propellers? Affect fuel consumption? Ferretti 430 sea trial..

MapisM

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It’s a pity you have not supplied us with the fuel data a 2430 rpm .
Well he did Porto, eventually.
If you look at the pic in post #34, it shows 190 l/h @2400, which is what those engines should burn at 2600 on full load.
To put it bluntly, based on those numbers, in the OP boots I would have saved myself the time to make a seatrial and post a thread about it. :(
 
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Portofino

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Well he did Porto, eventually.
If you look at the pic in post #34, it shows 190 l/h @2400, which is what those engines should burn at 2600 on full load.
To put it bluntly, based on those numbers, in the OP boots I would have saved myself the time to make a seatrial and post a thread about it. :(
That’s the owners old notes , a pic .Which is what I predicted using the 5 Hp / L rule of thumb @190 earlier ....so that “ rule is borne out in this case .

I wanted to see the data on the day .
All we have is the 150 @ 2200 .
Anyhow as I mentioned there may be VP electrotwackery in the ECU , after picking up various working sensors cutting off the fuel flow @ 100 % load .
Only seeing that from the day and comparing with the owner notes would confirm that .

Sorry to re ignite this but EGT s would reveal all .
At 2200 and it’s WOT .

The current owner as said needs it run at rated WOT and thus far from the info given and the two links I have posted ( cos I,am lazy and don,t want to get into a fight on technicalities) .....start @ the props .
Remember there was a VP guy on board, but the tone of the author re “ professionals “ is not super complimentary .
He introduces elements of doubts into the forum favourites “ I took an engineer “ indeed the OP goes to the length of mentioning a few posts in “ Greece’s best Volvo guy “ or words to that effect .

Anyhow we need some feed back from the OP .

Otherwise what’s was the point of the sea trial ?
...“..just see my note ....Oh and it’s a nice day flat calm fancy a run out “
” There nothing broke. All works .....here are my bank details .....make the transfer quick and you can have the keys by close of business “ .“...Hurry up mate “

You cant just shrug your shoulder and push this off as Greek way of doing this inho .
 
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MapisM

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That’s the owners old notes , a pic .
Yeah, but worth a thousand words.
If anything, you would assume that the boat could only be worse than what the owner tells you, wouldn't you?
And that pic would be bad enough for me.

Btw, initially I defended the seatrial result, that MIGHT have been not as bad as it seemed.
But those numbers change everything.
 

hkikis

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How can we see EGT? It has egt sensors and ecu that logging that?

Anyhow as I mentioned there may be VP electrotwackery in the ECU , after picking up various working sensors cutting off the fuel flow @ 100 % load .
TAMD engines I think that they have mechanic pump so how they cut off fuel flow?

I wanted to see the data on the day .
All we have is the 150 @ 2200 .
Sorry but as I didn't see 2600 I was like crazy and I didn't have any reason to check the fuel rate at 2400. If someone must checked it, was my mechanic. But ofcourse he didn't interesting about that. He told it is ok just dirty hull/props. Most of you think that it was dirty too. You think that diver cleaning isn't enough. A full day a diver cleaned that boat. The props was just copper colour. The boat was antifouling painted before 10 months. And you told that to be clean we must lift out to clean it with pressured water. This is not true. A proper diver can clean it very good. My previous boat (bavaria 330) with very very bad hull after some minutes that it cannot planned it self cleaner and got the rpm limit. Ofcourse not with the same max speed but it reach the rpm limit.

So please don't tell me that the hull cleaning is the problem!


Also I told that i had with my the OFFICIAL VOLVO PENTA mechanic of Greece. Not just a guy.. Not a mechanic that knows volvo.
Ok as I see this wasn't enough for a proper mechanic survey of this boat haha
 

hkikis

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Yeah, but worth a thousand words.
If anything, you would assume that the boat could only be worse than what the owner tells you, wouldn't you?
And that pic would be bad enough for me.

Btw, initially I defended the seatrial result, that MIGHT have been not as bad as it seemed.
But those numbers change everything.

Yes the sea trials was better than his notes. But without reach 2600 it isn't successful sea trial.
I told him... I am buying a boat with 480hp engines or with a lot less? Because at 2400 is a lot less.
Ok we cannot do something the seller doesn't intersting to change neither a bolt in his boat. He believe that it is perfect.
It looks perfect but ok maybe better to forget it.

Let's do a try for Squadron 55 :)
 

Chris H

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My boat was lifted and pressure washed the morning of the sea trial, the surveyer noted the anti fouling was very thick and uneven in places and recommended a full strip and start again, this dropped the max RPM by 200 revs, so a scrape by a diver and no idea of the anti foul condition could easily be the same reason as the 430 not getting to max RPM.
 

Portofino

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My boat was lifted and pressure washed the morning of the sea trial, the surveyer noted the anti fouling was very thick and uneven in places and recommended a full strip and start again, this dropped the max RPM by 200 revs, so a scrape by a diver and no idea of the anti foul condition could easily be the same reason as the 430 not getting to max RPM.
They supposed to prop them to take account reasonable hull every day conditions + cruising stores and what ever tankage .
As said mine with a similar moon scape surface exceeded the rated WOT .
So fresh if WOT was rated 2250 , it reached 2350 ....100 over .
Fast fwd [ insert your years ] at 16 years last year it made 2350...say 70 over .fresh from the yard annual .
At its seatrial 11 years It made over 2250 + ( who cares at this age how much over ? ) as said normal gauges

So imho they should reach rated WOT .
Your Arnesons are very trim sensitive .
As said even with my DIY diving I can reach rated WOT rpm .
Its should not be a only seen once In a lifetime event .....hindered by one barnacle left on the hull/ props or an extra person on board . :)
 
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vas

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Normally the cost of a lift for survey, pressure wash and yard charges as well as charge for cost of surveyor and engineer are for the account of the purchaser not the vendor.
sure, but if there's only one or two 42-45ft f/b boats on sale in Athens, why bother? It's a mentality thing, not a cost one.
 

Portofino

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Here we are seeing as we are doing sea trials and should it or not reach WOT ?
manufactures data in fact Ferretti G , same hull , #33 with 1100 Hp and # 34 with the 1360Hp CR .
So the same block weight and identical hulls from the plug .

Note the different props ....see pitch / Dia .
Arguably the 1360 is work in progress .This was the first 1360 btw .


622EECD9-A77F-40EE-A243-6BEDAA93AC5C.png

0682E374-824A-4821-9B68-71BD5BD442E6.png

The 1360 needs more prop work ....I tested one last Sep with 60 hrs it made 42 knots and 2430 rpm ....saw it myself .
Having said that look @ the foot of the 1360 table they made 2425 and 2418 ....for future owners to refer back to at sea trials .

So the Op needs this data sheet not a hand written note from the owner .
 
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jrudge

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The hull is not clean so there is really nothing more to be said.

A diver will not get a hull CLEAN - they will get the worst of it off.

I have the same. Clean it will do WOT. If I get achiever to do it it is fine for me, indeed even me cleaning the props makes a huge difference but I won't get WOT unless is it lifted and jetted off / anti fouled.
 

Portofino

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The hull is not clean so there is really nothing more to be said.

A diver will not get a hull CLEAN - they will get the worst of it off.

I have the same. Clean it will do WOT. If I get achiever to do it it is fine for me, indeed even me cleaning the props makes a huge difference but I won't get WOT unless is it lifted and jetted off / anti fouled.
It’s never done more than 2430 in the past 10 years at any time if I understand what’s been written so far .
MapishM made a point the seatrial info @2200 is better than the guys notes ....so it’s pretty clean arguably.

Clean props you should reach WOT .
Any excess drag from a moon scape hull from years of AF or a bit of residual crap on the hull only reduces the speed at said rpm .
The props Slip more ., the EGT s elevate .
As you run the slime washes off , speed increases , load + EGT decline ......but wot is there as specced , should always be achievable.

Its easy to use the dustbin diagnosis of dirty bottom .
 

Portofino

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Is that on shafts?, I would have expected much higher top speed with those engines.
Shafts normal props .
Its 22 degree deadrise eats Hp .
Every day all day cruise in comfort is N of 30 knots .
Current Hull is rebranded the 62 ...inc the bathing platform.

Point is you should in your sea trial be able to track those numbers , which I did with a 1360 ....55/62
And can do with my 700 ....42/48 .......with a chuffing 17 y age gap !!

Ok maybe if they we’re to fall short and theres a 500 kg jet ski hanging on the stern , a custom HT , 100 m of extra chain , a42 inch TV in every cabin , 10 pax on board , you had a new 10 mm ( was 4 mm ) teak deck and saloon floor etc etc .
Thing sits visibly lower in the marina when moored near another ....un modded std in the marina .
Yeah weight = drag it will knock off some WOT ......see the 1st article I first posted .
 

jrudge

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Porto

I has never done more than 1450 as the vendor says so ......

Funny that.... I would say the same thing!

It is not a "dustbin diagnosis". If the bum is not clean you are wasting time diagnosing anything. Clean it see what happens, independently check the RPM and then worry about it!

If it is not clean it will never achieve WOT.
 

Portofino

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I has never done more than 1450 as the vendor says so ......

Funny that.... I would say the same thing!

It is not a "dustbin diagnosis". If the bum is not clean you are wasting time diagnosing anything. Clean it see what happens, independently check the RPM and then worry about it!

If it is not clean it will never achieve WOT.

That’s not the experience I have had testing 4 FG boats .Two in Sept and two in Nov .
With just a diver clean up they made unremarkable WOT + other engine numbers .
Nor is it my current experience with my current boat .

So the onus is on the seller to do what’s necessary to make it reach WOT to the vendor.
This does not exclude a hull / sterngear clean the day before .....OP says it was done and could see the clean metal of the sterngear.
Current AF is not even 12 months old (July Sat in winter months mostly )and sounds like it’s a 2 year type ?

Moral of the story is what I have said numerous times with boat buying , more so long range ( although this was local ) to avoid wasting time ask before you go ....does it reach WOT ? .
As said what was the point of the ST ??
 

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Portofino

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Read a few of the articles. Typical American using lots and lots of word to say very little
Can I invite you to critique this ?

Additionally are you aware engine warranties are void if a boat can not reach Rpm @ WOT?
Hmm ? Of course realise the 430 tested is out of warranty,

Theres loadsa articles on WOT all consistent in what they say no contradictions .

Appreciate I get the feeling reading some folks reply’s to this post on here who’s boats struggle or even never reach rate rpm @ WOT are trying to dumb this down and pass it on .
The onus is on the seller to do what ever is necessary so @ WOT rated rpm can be demonstrated at a sea trial .

Wide-Open Throttle - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine
 

PowerYachtBlog

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Apart trim tabs, weight can be a decisive factor as much as fouling. Did the boat had a tender on, how about fuel and water loading, and personal items.
I would be happy with what you got, in the end a Ferretti 430 is all about good cruising, and if you ware happy with 23 knots at about 6.5 liter per nm then I would close the deal.
 

Rocksteadee

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1. Bottom dirty and or props scaled, barnacled
2. Loads of extra weigh
3. Engine faults, breathing

Owner to get it sorted or reduce price by the 10% to compensate for the same loss of WOT, power and speed.

if not walk away as you will have same problem when reselling
 
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