Wrong propellers? Affect fuel consumption? Ferretti 430 sea trial..

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Surely the props weren't modified to improve acceleration anyway, because that would have made the boat running out of prop, not short of rpm.

Youre right. Senior moment

Lastly, I know it's a larger hull and the 3208 are less powerful, but after all according to the table you posted your F46 only managed 24 kts, and she was also 100rpm short of the rated 2800 of those engines....

I just put that up for indication purposes. The figures were actually taken mid season in Palma where sterngear fouling is very bad and I used to use those figures for real life cruise planning. My F46 could reach 26-27kts with hull and props clean but in Palma that didnt last long

 

[MapisM]

Aha, I see. Yep, 26/27 for the 46 sounds about right.
I don't think the 430 was MUCH faster, anyhow. 29/30 at best, I believe.
That's the reason why I actually think that the seatrial results were pretty good, missing rpm aside.
Which is something easy to put straight, making an already reactive boat even better, a hair faster, and correctly loaded.

Apropos of load, I disagree with Porto's concern about the boat running overloaded for 10 years.
Not on the principle, on which he's absolutely correct, but on the measure.
I mean, the owner used to cruise at 22kts/2200rpm, well below her full load even with the current propping.
That's probably in the 80/85% load ballpark, which is nothing to write home about.
Yes, she could probably make the same speed with at a slightly higher rpm and a <80% load, with better tuned props.
And I would want to checking also how loaded she was, the trim tab setting, all other engine parameters, etc.
But we are talking of making a good boat even better, not of fixing a huge problem.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

As we've discussed before, according to my experience, Ferrettis are sensitive to trim tab position but I dont think you'd lose 200 rpm because of that

 

[hkikis]

easier said than done in GR Porto...
Not that many boats available, most of them with missing docs/wrong docs/good for export not home use/difficult-impossible to buy as Greek for private use.
And you really DONT wont to embark in a process of buying a 15+yo boat from abroad to bring it in the country...

This is the truth... In Greece we don't have a lot boats. I am trying to buy from November and I have failed in a lot of boats that I try to buy.
I want boat like crazy for the summer but I don't want to make wrong choice because I am enthusiastic!
If I choose a boat that I will not like it, it will be very very difficult to sell it. In Greece it is very difficult really.

Next interesting choice is Fairline Squadron 55 2001 D12 1100hours with 215k (I want it at 200k but still he didn't accept it).
Squadron has a lot more stuff and I like it more. The only discouraging think is that it is too big for me. My first boat was 33ft that I bought last summer!!
I fear a little 55ft boats. If I don't think my driving abilities Squadron is fantastic boat. Unfortunately cannot compared with Ferretti 430.

Other choices under 250k fly in Greece
Cranchi 40 07 125k (very small and cranchi)
Azimut 42 02 160k (no way!!)
Princess 45 02 170k unpaid vat ( I like it very much but very expensive... At november sold at 145k... I lost it and now the new owner wants to sell it to earn money without neither to took it from the previous owner... The boat is still at the previoues owner haha )
Prestige 42 08 175k (perfect condition but small and asshole owner)
Cranchi 50 08 240k (New serries Cranchi boat have very nice design.. Very very nice but quite expensive)


That's why it is difficult to forget a boat with the first obstruction... :/ :/

 

[hkikis]

As we've discussed before, according to my experience, Ferrettis are sensitive to trim tab position but I dont think you'd lose 200 rpm because of that

Forget trims.... The owner after 10years he knows to use the trims of the boat.. He is very clear... This is the max rpm even if it is just antifouling painted.
He told us that because of a health problem he did over 40miles with full wot 2430 before years.
How can someone to have a boat and dont know the max rpm it is really crazy.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Dont be worried about buying a bigger boat. You'll soon get used to the extra size and length and everything happens a bit slower with a heavier boat anyway. If you are concerned, get an instructor to take you out for a day's training on handling it

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Forget trims.... The owner after 10years he knows to use the trims of the boat.. He is very clear... This is the max rpm even if it is just antifouling painted.
He told us that because of a health problem he did over 40miles with full wot 2430 before years.
How can someone to have a boat and dont know the max rpm it is really crazy.

Just out of interest do you have a photo of the underneath of the boat showing the props?

 

[MapisM]

he did over 40miles with full wot 2430 before years

Mmm... Well, THAT was not a good idea.
Nothing else that you didn't tell us so far?

 

[MapisM]

I dont think you'd lose 200 rpm because of that

Agreed, but even half of that would have made a difference.
Anyhow, AIUI we can rule out this possibility now.

 

[hkikis]

No I don't have... I can take a foto from the dock but what to see.. I preferred to don't lift out the boat as I know that there isn't anyway to have osmosis. Last antifouling was at July so he told me that will be ok for this year only with clean. He paint it every 2years.

 

[Portofino]

No I don't have... I can take a foto from the dock but what to see.. I preferred to don't lift out the boat as I know that there isn't anyway to have osmosis. Last antifouling was at July so he told me that will be ok for this year only with clean. He paint it every 2years.

Hang on I thought it had been done , in the sense of its annual maintenance “the day before “ your test ?
Anyhow regardless it should be made to reach 2700 rpm .

 

[MapisM]

Hang on I thought it had been done

Me 2. "absolutely clean before 1 day" was the actual statement.
I'm beginning to wonder how interested in our views the OP really is, in fact.
All the best to him for his search, anyhow.

 

[Portofino]

Just on the “ it’s always been 2430 rpm @ WOT “ for the past 10 y in my ownership....so relax !

Engine Life vs. Engine Loading - Seaboard Marine

It just would worry me in a pass the parcel kinda way ..when the music stops it’s goes bang in my ownership.

 

[hkikis]

Guys what you don't understand? 1 day before sea trial they cleaned the hull and props with diver! Not antifouling paint! When we are telling clean the hull we mean diver clean!

Last antifouling was at July!!!! Before 10 months!!! You think that the boat lost 200rpm because of it has 10months paint ?
The owner was clear.. 10 years has the same max rpm limit... Even if it is fresh antifouling paint or worn.


Here are old notes of the owner
Yesterday cleaned with zero wind and waves
2200rpm 23.5
2430rpm 28.5

 

[markc]

Guys what you don't understand? 1 day before sea trial they cleaned the hull and props with diver! Not antifouling paint! When we are telling clean the hull we mean diver clean!

Last antifouling was at July!!!! Before 10 months!!! You think that the boat lost 200rpm because of it has 10months paint ?
The owner was clear.. 10 years has the same max rpm limit... Even if it is fresh antifouling paint or worn.


Here are old notes of the owner
Yesterday cleaned with zero wind and waves
2200rpm 23.5
2430rpm 28.5

I wouldn't be confident that a diver would get the props and stern gear properly clean. I think they would get the worst of any growth off though. I'm also not confident that I would rely on a owner saying "it's been the same for 10 years" - that sounds more like a quick line to save a sale, without really thinking about what he was saying. Perhaps, apart from not being properly clean, the props could be slightly damaged - dirty props + not totally clean hull + slight prop damage could = the loss of RPM

 

[Bandit]

A diver cant clean a hull or stern gear ( props and rudders) as well as a high power pressure washer machine and operator can.

Slime and very fine seaweed growth on a hull that you can hardly see makes quite a difference normally to top speed , not necesarily to top RPM unless heavily fouled.

Normally when you buy a boat it needs to be seen out of the water by the surveyor and often the prospective purchaser for a hull inspection and a stern gear inspection, osmosis check, moisture level check etc and normally when it is hoisted out that is when the boat is thoroughly high pressure washed to clean the hull ?

So I assume neither you nor your surveyor have seen the sterngear especially the propellers?

Normally the propellers are stamped with their diameter and pitch and the manufacturers mark, if they have been repitched you can normally see the old stampings crossed out and often you can read them.

 

[Portofino]

Just adding to my post #33 .....the link
Get it transferred to Greek , also this ( same guy ) pass both articles to the people , all of them on the sea trial and suggest you will only buy it if meets the rated rpm + bit more .....my over 2600 near 2700 rpm .

Understanding Low Power Troubleshooting - Seaboard Marine

It’s a pity you have not supplied us with the fuel data a 2430 rpm .

 

[vas]

you all may be correct, but knowing a bit the Greek market I'm pretty sure the owner and/or dealer wont consider lifting the boat for a punter to have a look and jetwash the hull.
Not sure there are presale contractual forms of doing such a thing with a refundable deposit as you seem to be regularly doing up north

 

[Portofino]

I have used a diver ( and DIY dived to clean ) and to be fair to the stern gear you can do enough so,s not to materially effect the figures .
Remember I can see it all with the MAN MMDS ...so load , fuel , turbo boost + a total of about irrc 14 in all .
Ok exactly not as clean as fresh acid job on the hard but enough to be as good as for practice .
Remember it should reach just a bit over rated if correctly propped and loaded , thats why iam say more than 2600 not nearly there ....over it to allow for a tiny bit of growth , excess cruising stores etc etc .

Hull slime washes off ,
Props become shiny brass look at the hubs after an hr or so .

His boost pressure of 205 k p is high = 2,05 bar for 2200 rpm ......guess ought to be around 1.8 to 1.9 bar

 

[Bandit]

you all may be correct, but knowing a bit the Greek market I'm pretty sure the owner and/or dealer wont consider lifting the boat for a punter to have a look and jetwash the hull.
Not sure there are presale contractual forms of doing such a thing with a refundable deposit as you seem to be regularly doing up north

Normally the cost of a lift for survey, pressure wash and yard charges as well as charge for cost of surveyor and engineer are for the account of the purchaser not the vendor.