Wooden Boat Build - Yet another "Please Help Me Choose a Boat" request

[Keith 66]

If you are contemplating cedar strip It really isnt worth machining the strips yourself, the wastage in sawdust will be huge, You are better off buying the strips in ready machined in either cove & bead or speed strip which due to its tongue & groove edges goes together more fairly. It is easier than glued clinker & will be marginally lighter. Glued clinker is a good method but it isnt worth using unless you use the very best quality plywood & that isnt cheap.

 

[DownWest]

If you are contemplating cedar strip It really isnt worth machining the strips yourself, the wastage in sawdust will be huge, You are better off buying the strips in ready machined in either cove & bead or speed strip which due to its tongue & groove edges goes together more fairly. It is easier than glued clinker & will be marginally lighter. Glued clinker is a good method but it isnt worth using unless you use the very best quality plywood & that isnt cheap.

Interesting comment about ply and glued clinker.
While Robbins sells very nice ply, at a price..My local woodyard here sells good gaboon exterior for €40 a standard 10mm sheet, no voids as yet.
A back of envelope scribble at material costs for my 15ft Oughtred with three 10x5 sheets of 6mm marine ply and rough lumber, iroko/maranti, for the hardwood parts came out at about £1,200 and that included the sailcloth and materials for the trailer. Twelve years ago, so scale it up a bit. Since the OP has some machinery, buying rough planks and sizing the bits one need can result in considerable savings in time and money, apart from the satisfaction. My Axminster planer thicknesser, bought with the excuse of work on the house, has been a very usefull bit of kit.
Books: The Gougeon Bros one is on line for free. Iain Oughtred's Clinker Ply book is excellent on all aspects of building a ply boat. Bit of googling will bring up birdsmouth spar construction, a good method for light and strong spars. All three of mine are built that way. Duckworks site has some usfull info on that.

 

[oldbloke]

Just to add a counterbalance in favour of your initial thoughts on real wood and clinker. I f you are building for pleasure rather than necessity there can't be anything more satisfying and aesthetically pleasing than riveted clinker. It isn't "that" difficult, and simple folk have been using it for centuries. No fumes, no epoxy, easily repairable, and dead classy. A tight, good condition boat will happily trail but benefits from a bit of care.
They don't like point loading and bounching, so ensure the weight is on the hog and mould up cradles to cosset the Hull rather than use rollers or the horrid little hard rubber pads.
Might be better to start with the tender before plunging into the main feature, although that probably applies to all the suggested options

 

[Captain Barnacles]

Changing tack slightly; could I garner opinions about this Haven 12½ please?

I enquired about it and the broker gave the following further information:

"The owner built the boat himself, partly because he wanted a boat of this type and partly for the enjoyment of the build. He is not a professional shipwright but has taken great care and I believe she is of reasonable build quality. She is not however a professional finish and is priced accordingly, but the boat is sound, well equipped and ready to go. The trailer is in good order and up to a long journey."

I like the looks of the boat and to my untrained eye she does appear to have all the right bits and pieces in all the right places. I'm a little skeptical though about "reasonable" build quality and quality of the finish. I'd rather build a boat than have to spend weeks bringing one up to scratch. Would I be right in thinking that to re-finish such a boat there would be a lot of sanding, scraping and rubbing to get back to the wood, then start building up layers of finish again?

 

[Hacker]

As a largely wooden boat you are going to need to strip and refinish her every few years, so if that puts you off…… The potential issue for me is that she is glass sheathed. If water gets behind that then rot will set in and will remain hidden. You really need to go over the hull to check for any signs of delamination or compressible surface. Also stainless bolts through the keel will lead to iron sickness at some stage. Have a good look. If she were mine I’d change those to bronze once I owned her.

 

[DownWest]

Many, if not most, strip built boats are glassed sheathed. The bad rep of sheathing is from iffy old planked hulls being sheathed in glass and polyester resin. Done from new with epoxy is a different matter.

I reckon that is a good price, depending on inspection. The SS keel bolts would not trouble me, unless it lived all year on a mooring, and even then...

Over on the WBF, the original Herreshoff boat has been criticised by some as being a sluggard, but I expect the derivatives like this are better performers.

Money where mouth time I am about to glass sheath my current (ply) build and the bolts to hold the lead keel are stainless. Mostly aimed at trailer sailing, but might spend weeks moored too.

 

[Tranona]

Changing tack slightly; could I garner opinions about this Haven 12½ please?

I enquired about it and the broker gave the following further information:

"The owner built the boat himself, partly because he wanted a boat of this type and partly for the enjoyment of the build. He is not a professional shipwright but has taken great care and I believe she is of reasonable build quality. She is not however a professional finish and is priced accordingly, but the boat is sound, well equipped and ready to go. The trailer is in good order and up to a long journey."

I like the looks of the boat and to my untrained eye she does appear to have all the right bits and pieces in all the right places. I'm a little skeptical though about "reasonable" build quality and quality of the finish. I'd rather build a boat than have to spend weeks bringing one up to scratch. Would I be right in thinking that to re-finish such a boat there would be a lot of sanding, scraping and rubbing to get back to the wood, then start building up layers of finish again?

Well worth considering. There have been a few others built to this design in the UK and professionally built ones have sold for well over twice this asking price.

However it is not built exactly to the design (either White's or Herreshoff's) as they were close seamed carvel in white cedar fastened with copper and bronze. This is enormously time consuming and requires accurate working to get the hull fair and watertight, plus ongoing maintenance such as you describe.

This builder has chosen the alternative epoxy sheathed strip plank which is perfectly acceptable and if well done results in a low maintenance long lived craft. As mentioned the potential downside is failure of the bond between the glass cloth and the wood, but it really should not be an issue with this boat. The usual weakness is around the hull deck join on yachts where there are lots of fastenings and fresh water can get in. This is not the case with this design as the gunwhales are capped and sealed. Looks like the hull was painted with 2 pack and the brightwork looks sound. The only thing that would concern me is the deck where he has gone for laid teak - unheard of in Herreshoff's days when they would be canvas over cedar planking and White's version has epoxy glass over ply. I think the teak is overkill on such a simple boat, but if it is sound and well glued down should not give problems. The interior fittings are a bit fussy compared with the original and I am not sure he has got the shape of the coamings exactly right. It is these sort of details that probably prompt Gregson's comments

If you want to delve further there is a Wooden Boat book covering the design and build (I am looking at my copy now) and I think Watercraft (but may have been Classic Boat) ran a series a few years ago on a traditional DIY build in the US. Superb boat but seem to remember the father and son taking 10 years or more to complete it.

The boat itself does everything it says on the tin, and the White changes to the original design improve the stability of the boat - it could be a bit flighty and wet in stronger winds according to contemporary reports.

 

[Captain Barnacles]

Apologies for the delay in responding to the thread. I really am most grateful for all contributions and the valuable insights are all feeding into my decision making process.

I am still on the fence about the Haven 12 ½. When I thought that I could just buy a boat and get on the water I felt like I'd given up on my quest to build one. My current thinking is to build a boat but perhaps have a GP14, Wayfarer or similar to get in some much needed sailing practice while my creation takes shape. I am lucky enough to have the space to house both, I just need to convince Mrs Barnacles of my cunning plan!

After spending many more hours this week trying to narrow my choices down I have succeeded in increasing the size of my "shortlist". I have set a deadline of 2 weeks to have chosen a design to build (I have to get started sometime and it's very unlikely that any of my shortlisted boats would leave me feeling remorseful) so there's still 14 days for a change of heart and for me to run out and exercise my flexible friend.

I have ordered a handful of boatbuilding books and will be studying them before making any final decisions. If I decide to rein in my exuberance to build in clinker in favour of actually building something I can sail this side of my retirement (still some years off!) my shortlist comprises:

Westray 16
Wolstenholme Swallow
Vivier Ebihen 16, Ilur, Beg Meil, Minahouet
Gartside #218
JW Navigator

However, should I feel brave enough to take on a bigger challenge my list will include:

Gartside #124, #107
Vivier - as above but in clinker or strip
Haven 12 ½ - though looking a little less likely.

So that's my current thinking, such as it is. Anyone fancy a sweepstake on how this story ends? ?

 

[DownWest]

Sweepstake? Bit like betting on race with your bookie choosing the horses and the odds .
Have fun with choosing, and building. Not to mention keeping us informed.

 

[Captain Barnacles]

Sweepstake? Bit like betting on race with your bookie choosing the horses and the odds .
Have fun with choosing, and building. Not to mention keeping us informed.

? ? ?
Something like that, except that in this case the bookie is clueless about the horses and the odds are anyones guess at the moment.

I'll certainly be keeping you informed, not to mention constantly harrassing you for information and advice.