Wooden Boat Build - Yet another "Please Help Me Choose a Boat" request

[Captain Barnacles]

Dear All,

I have been looking into wooden sailing dinghies for several months and have been all around the houses trying to decide which features are important and which are less so in my next boat. I am looking to build a boat, though if the right boat were to become available second-hand before I start a build I could be tempted. I have a good idea of what I want but I can’t quite nail down which design to go for. I was hoping that the collective wisdom on this forum might help with my decision making process. I have very few hard-and-fast requirements, more a list of what I’d like and what I don’t think I’d like.

She must be:

• a trailerable stable, safe wooden dinghy suited to coastal cruising, inland trips and general day sailing
• suitable for me to be able to sail alone or take the family (up to 4 POB)
• pretty, she must be pretty

I’d like:

• a half-decked design, preferably with a coaming
• clinker construction, though I will look at other methods. Not so keen on stitch and glue, don’t ask why, I just don’t fancy it
• ply or timber built though I’d probably prefer timber, I don’t much enjoy working with ply
• 14’ to 17’ is my preferred LOA but would consider others if pushed
• ideally not too heavy, it’s a tall order but perhaps water ballast
• configurable for moderately comfortable sleeping aboard
• a gaffer or a lugger, possibly a yawl or Bermudan
• provision for rowing and perhaps a small outboard (maybe electric?) on occasions
• some built-in buoyancy
• something that’s reasonably quick and easy to rig
• something seaworthy in case I get brave and decide to go further afield or if the weather really picks up in the bay etc. I’m not planning to cross the Atlantic!

I’d probably prefer not to have:

• a double-ender - I love them but they look somewhat cramped
• a huge array of sails to be constantly trimming
• stitch and glue/stitch and tape construction - unless you can convince me otherwise!

And I really don’t want:

• a racing dinghy
• something heavy and cumbersome to handle
• a yacht
• a motorboat!
• something that’s difficult to right if knocked down

I appreciate that to get all of these features in a boat is a tall order but obviously the more of them I can have the better.

I briefly owned a Swallow Bay Raider 20 which was a wonderful boat in so many respects. A change in circumstances meant I had to part with it but looking back there were a couple of aspects that I didn’t like so much; it was too large for my needs (obviously that’s no fault of the boat) and it was tiresome to rig, the kids were bored and restless by the time we got on the water, not a good start to a day’s sailing. What I really learned from owning the BR20 was that I don’t want another plastic boat.

I have looked at the designs of Vivier, Welsford, Oughtred, Selway-Fisher and a few others. Irrespective of their construction methods or their suitability for my purposes some of the designs that I like the most are Fulmar, Haven 12½, Osea Brig, Ebihen 16, Highlander 16, Navigator, Westray 16, Northumbrian Coble. I list these to give an idea of the sort of lines that I find attractive in a boat rather than their outright suitability for my needs.

I am an experienced woodworker with a decent ensemble of quality hand tools, power tools and machinery available so the idea of a fairly complex build doesn’t worry me too much. On the other hand I don’t want something that’s so painfully slow that I may lose interest. I have a good size workshop and a covered carport area behind it with a concrete floor which is probably where I would do most of the building in the warmer months, then move the project into the workshop over the winter.

I welcome any suggestions about the suitability of any of the boats I’ve listed but I’d also love to hear any suggestions for alternatives that I have overlooked. I don’t intend to build more than one boat in my lifetime (unless I really take to it) so I’d really like to be confident that I have the right design before I start milling timber. I’d like to get started this summer but I am not going to rush into something ill-considered.

Thank you in advance for any help or guidance that you can offer, it’s all greatly appreciated.

 

[DoubleEnder]

Lovely project. I’d suggest you also talk to the guys in the Wooden Boat Forum, in their Design section. Lots of builds and builders there. as far as I know Oughtred designs look fabulous and sail well. Vivier maybe a bit huskier and more seaworthy, perhaps better for coastal work with children. I think you may find Vivier designs are only available as pre cut kits.....

Don’t overlook the question of launch and recovery, weight on the slipway.

there is a sea otter 18 for sale on the Isle of Wight, beautiful little boat And ready to go.... I was so tempted
Sea Otter 18 for sale UK, Sea Otter boats for sale, Sea Otter used boat sales, Sea Otter Sailing Yachts For Sale Gaff Yawl Seaotter 18 by David Moss - Apollo Duck

 

[DownWest]

Second the WBF for lots of builds with photos.
Sounds like you need a lug rig, if setting up is tiresome, maybe a lug yawl?
Real wood clinker is a bit of a pain if frequent trailing is envisaged. You don't like stich and goo, but glued clinker ply a much nicer method, lots less epoxy and can be bright finished. I have an Oughtred gunter rigged double ender, built in 5 months of spare time. Tend to agree that 'sharp' sterns are less space friendly, but very pretty and seaworthy. Sorted out the rig, so it sets up in a few minutes at the slip.
Probably Vivier is your best bet. His designs are available as precut kits or you can take the files to your local CNC place or just cut them by hand. His son did run a company doing kits, but it didn't work out. Translations of the instructions are available.
There is strip construction, I was parked next to a Dutch built Ilur in strip and chatted to the owner. His first build and very well done.

On the seaworthy front, Welsford's boats score pretty high and lots are used for cruising. Several of his designs are aimed at that.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Watching this with great interest. I've got an unsatisfied ambition to build a small boat too

 

[oldbloke]

How about one of the traditional designs that are still being made, although I have no idea if the plans are available to the home builder,?.
Fowey River, Seaview OD, Norfolk Broads OD, all 14' and in the area you are talking about.
Somewhat bigger would be a Salcombe Yawl, possibly with a smaller rig, plans should be available for a modern Morrison or Hewlett design.
All are riveted clinker and mostly real wood.
All would have the advantage of being sell-able into a class if needed.

 

[Bajansailor]

Have you come across the Penobscots designed by Arch Davis?
Wood Boat Plans, Wooden Boat Kits and Boat Designs - Arch Davis Design

 

[Hacker]

Check out The Art of Boatbuilding on youtube. He’s building a Haven

 

[Tranona]

Really only you can decide what is suitable for you and you would enjoy building. There is such an enormous choice of designs that meet your brief, most of which never actually get built as CAD makes it easy for designers to churn out new designs to try and fill perceived gaps. On the other hand there are several designers/designs that have hit the sweet spot and as a result many boats have been built to their designs or from their kits. You have identified many in this category who offer designs that would meet your requirements.

Suggest you subscribe to Watercraft and get access to their back numbers as that is the magazine for this type of self build boats and has covered dozens of different build projects over the past 20 years or so as well as publishing plans from Paul Gartside. Paul's designs are particularly good if you want to build traditionally, although some are for modern style building such as strip plank and glued clinker.

The Haven 12 1/2 on your list is indeed a desirable boat but is a nightmare to build as a one off. However Chuck Paine has designed an update on similar lines, featured in a recent Classic Boat which looked much easier to build. not sure if he sells plans, though.

 

[Bajansailor]

The Haven 12 1/2 on your list is indeed a desirable boat but is a nightmare to build as a one off. However Chuck Paine has designed an update on similar lines, featured in a recent Classic Boat which looked much easier to build. not sure if he sells plans, though.

One can buy a set of emailed study plans for the Paine 14 from Chuck's website, but there is no mention of the cost of full works plans.....
The Paine 14 – A Herreshoff – inspired daysailor – Chuck Paine Yacht Design LLC

 

[Keith 66]

It seems to me that what you want does not exist, A traditional clinker boat that will carry four & is not too heavy, I have been mucking about in such boats for more than 40 years & repairing & building them too.
If the boat is going to be trailer sailed A trad clinker boat isnt going to like this, its just the way it is, you will need a soft riding trailer or damage to the boat can result when you hit a pothole. Water ballast isnt an option on a trad boat either.
Trying to combine good rowing qualities with good sailing is very hard & most sail & oar boats are not very good at either, My Dad built an Oughtred Ness Yawl, very pretty & sailed well but it was a strange boat, initially quite tippy & with little sail carrying power yet it didnt row that well either. Being double ended on that size was just a waste of time.
Something like a YWDB is a good sailing boat that will carry the family but you wouldnt want to row one far! they are also heavy at 450ld.
There is a thriving class association.
I would second the designs of Paul Gartside he has a real good eye for a good boat.

 

[DownWest]

One can buy a set of emailed study plans for the Paine 14 from Chuck's website, but there is no mention of the cost of full works plans.....
The Paine 14 – A Herreshoff – inspired daysailor – Chuck Paine Yacht Design LLC

Last time I looked at plans from Chuck Paine, when I was interested in building a Francis 26, the prices startled me.

 

[Tranona]

He is long retired now and designed this boat first for himself and then for a small builder.

 

[wombat88]

Try and go for a sail in something similar to what you hope to build. Doesn't matter if it is grp. Just to get a feel. Reading your requirements I immediately thought of a Drascombe, I know they tend to get dismissed in the search for more exotic craft but they do work and the Longboat in particular can be made to hustle along quite nicely. They are light too and sailed single handed under main only it is like a giant Laser...but then you have had a Bayraider.

Ribbed clinker and trailing do not go together.

Me? I'd build a catboat with unstayed mast, barn door rudder etc etc. probably completely unsuitable for your needs.

 

[Wansworth]

Get Welsford to design you a 13 foot version of his scamp?

 

[Captain Barnacles]

Wow! Thank you all for your valuable input so far, there's quite a bit to digest there. There are several points raised that hadn't occured to me at all, taking those on board I may begin to look in a slightly different direction.

I would love to get out on the water and sail a few of the boats that I like, I've already had a couple of very kind offers to do so but limitations of time, distance, COVID restrictions/concerns etc I've had to decline thus far.

I do have a bit of insight into the Devon Yawl (and by association the Salcombe Yawl). A very dear friend used to manufacture the Devon Yawl back in the 1980's. He loves the boat but said that if given the choice he would opt for the Salcombe Yawl all day long.

This evening I'll have a careful read of all advice profered, have a look at boat suggestions etc. and see if I can start to narrow down the field a little.

 

[Captain Barnacles]

Thanks again for the advice so far. I've had a chance to digest much of the information and I'll be spending the evening looking at the various boats suggested.

Lovely project. I’d suggest you also talk to the guys in the Wooden Boat Forum, in their Design section. Lots of builds and builders there. as far as I know Oughtred designs look fabulous and sail well. Vivier maybe a bit huskier and more seaworthy, perhaps better for coastal work with children. I think you may find Vivier designs are only available as pre cut kits.....

Don’t overlook the question of launch and recovery, weight on the slipway.

there is a sea otter 18 for sale on the Isle of Wight, beautiful little boat And ready to go.... I was so tempted
Sea Otter 18 for sale UK, Sea Otter boats for sale, Sea Otter used boat sales, Sea Otter Sailing Yachts For Sale Gaff Yawl Seaotter 18 by David Moss - Apollo Duck

Just signed up at WBF, there's a lot of great info on there by the looks of it. I can see it being a very useful resource. Small correction; there was a Sea Otter 18 for sale

Second the WBF for lots of builds with photos.
Sounds like you need a lug rig, if setting up is tiresome, maybe a lug yawl?
Real wood clinker is a bit of a pain if frequent trailing is envisaged. You don't like stich and goo, but glued clinker ply a much nicer method, lots less epoxy and can be bright finished. I have an Oughtred gunter rigged double ender, built in 5 months of spare time. Tend to agree that 'sharp' sterns are less space friendly, but very pretty and seaworthy. Sorted out the rig, so it sets up in a few minutes at the slip.
Probably Vivier is your best bet. His designs are available as precut kits or you can take the files to your local CNC place or just cut them by hand. His son did run a company doing kits, but it didn't work out. Translations of the instructions are available.
There is strip construction, I was parked next to a Dutch built Ilur in strip and chatted to the owner. His first build and very well done.

On the seaworthy front, Welsford's boats score pretty high and lots are used for cruising. Several of his designs are aimed at that.

Lug rig could well be the way to go. I'll have a look at glued clinker ply, I've not considered that method before, I'm a purist but I'm not a masochist. I want to enjoy the build but much more than that I want to enjoy the sailing. I did look at the Ilur in strip and wondered if it might be a bit much for my first build but then I'm not entirely sure what the skill level and build time comparison is between clinker and strip. I've ordered a few books so hopefully by the time I'm ready to press the button and order a set of plans I'll be much wiser about the whole process.

How about one of the traditional designs that are still being made, although I have no idea if the plans are available to the home builder,?.
Fowey River, Seaview OD, Norfolk Broads OD, all 14' and in the area you are talking about.
Somewhat bigger would be a Salcombe Yawl, possibly with a smaller rig, plans should be available for a modern Morrison or Hewlett design.
All are riveted clinker and mostly real wood.
All would have the advantage of being sell-able into a class if needed.

I'll take a look, thank you.

Have you come across the Penobscots designed by Arch Davis?
Wood Boat Plans, Wooden Boat Kits and Boat Designs - Arch Davis Design

I haven't, I'll put that on my list of sites to visit. Thank you.

Check out The Art of Boatbuilding on youtube. He’s building a Haven

I have to confess that I have watched some of those and it's likely that I might have missed the Haven 12 ½ had I not stumbled across The Art of Boatbuilding. They are really well produced videos and they are incredibly informative, I take my hat off to the host.

Really only you can decide what is suitable for you and you would enjoy building. There is such an enormous choice of designs that meet your brief, most of which never actually get built as CAD makes it easy for designers to churn out new designs to try and fill perceived gaps. On the other hand there are several designers/designs that have hit the sweet spot and as a result many boats have been built to their designs or from their kits. You have identified many in this category who offer designs that would meet your requirements.

Suggest you subscribe to Watercraft and get access to their back numbers as that is the magazine for this type of self build boats and has covered dozens of different build projects over the past 20 years or so as well as publishing plans from Paul Gartside. Paul's designs are particularly good if you want to build traditionally, although some are for modern style building such as strip plank and glued clinker.

The Haven 12 1/2 on your list is indeed a desirable boat but is a nightmare to build as a one off. However Chuck Paine has designed an update on similar lines, featured in a recent Classic Boat which looked much easier to build. not sure if he sells plans, though.

Good point, I definitely want a boat that has a good following. I don't want to build something completely obscure as I feel that I'll need help along the way from the folks that have gone before me. I subscribed to Watercraft on Friday and receievd my first issue this morning - that's what I call great service! I'm looking forward to pouring a dram and sitting down to a good read.

It seems to me that what you want does not exist, A traditional clinker boat that will carry four & is not too heavy, I have been mucking about in such boats for more than 40 years & repairing & building them too.
If the boat is going to be trailer sailed A trad clinker boat isnt going to like this, its just the way it is, you will need a soft riding trailer or damage to the boat can result when you hit a pothole. Water ballast isnt an option on a trad boat either.
Trying to combine good rowing qualities with good sailing is very hard & most sail & oar boats are not very good at either, My Dad built an Oughtred Ness Yawl, very pretty & sailed well but it was a strange boat, initially quite tippy & with little sail carrying power yet it didnt row that well either. Being double ended on that size was just a waste of time.
Something like a YWDB is a good sailing boat that will carry the family but you wouldnt want to row one far! they are also heavy at 450ld.
There is a thriving class association.
I would second the designs of Paul Gartside he has a real good eye for a good boat.

To be perfectly honest, I think I would have been amazed if what I want did exist . Within our household I have a reputation for wanting things that generally don't (or can't) exist!It's nice to know that boats are no different.

I had never considered the effect that being bounced along on a trailer might have on a clinker boat. My local sailing is the River Severn, not renowned for being particularly sail boat friendly so I'm likely to travel extensively with it on a trailer. It looks like I may have to have a rethink.

I can't see that I'd ever set out for a day's rowing, in fact I'd hope to have to row as little as possible so it's not high on my list of wants but I suppose it'd just be nice to know that I could row (and make some headway) if I had to.

I'm working my way through Paul Gartside's designs - there are so many!

Try and go for a sail in something similar to what you hope to build. Doesn't matter if it is grp. Just to get a feel. Reading your requirements I immediately thought of a Drascombe, I know they tend to get dismissed in the search for more exotic craft but they do work and the Longboat in particular can be made to hustle along quite nicely. They are light too and sailed single handed under main only it is like a giant Laser...but then you have had a Bayraider.

Ribbed clinker and trailing do not go together.

Me? I'd build a catboat with unstayed mast, barn door rudder etc etc. probably completely unsuitable for your needs.

I have looked at Drascombes on-and-off for years and somehow I've always managed to not buy one! They are nice boats, they are very practical and I'm sure it would do everything that I need but I just don't think I could live with one. I'll have another look.

Point taken on the clinker + trailer = bad. I hadn't considered that but now now that I know I'm possibly heading in a slightly different direction.

Get Welsford to design you a 13 foot version of his scamp?

? Nice boat but I just couldn't live with the pram bow, just not a fan.

 

[Hacker]

Strip building isn’t hard. You need to have a spindle moulder/router table to get the correct profiles (yes you could do by hand but very time consuming). You can edge set the planks easily and once they have been machined then the build is faster than clinker or carvel. One tip is to invest in a plastic nail gun, you can plane off any nail heads.

 

[Captain Barnacles]

Strip building isn’t hard. You need to have a spindle moulder/router table to get the correct profiles (yes you could do by hand but very time consuming). You can edge set the planks easily and once they have been machined then the build is faster than clinker or carvel. One tip is to invest in a plastic nail gun, you can plane off any nail heads.

OK, that's interesting. I had it in my head that strip building was the most complex, time-consuming and difficult method of building - I'm not sure where I got that from.

I have both a spindle moulder and a router table in the workshop but I've never come across a plastic nail gun, that's a new one on me.

Hmmm, Just when I thought I could start to narrow down the field a little I now get to include strip built boats in my quest.

 

[Hacker]

Ripping the wood down to the correct size is reasonably easy but just takes time (and you need to ensure the grain is the correct orientation), once you have that stock you the need to process it twice over the relevant moulding bits to make the top and bottom shapes. At this point you have loads of long lengths of appropriately size/shaped “planks”. So a fair bit of work to make the stock but it isn’t tricky. You then set up your molds as per other build methods. You start at the sheer and then lay each strake down with the concave side uppermost, run a bead of glue into it and then put the next strake on it. The moulding shapes allow you to curve the strakes around the mold Into the required hull shape.
The plastic nail gun is a great bit of kit. Normally you would nail very 3rd down down into the layers below using stainless pins. If you miss the correct angle they are left sticking out (embarrassing and a bit of a pain to pull and repin). The plastic nails partly melt as they go in thus binding the wood together. If they poke out of the side you can merely plane the excess using a plane or chisel. Also no chance of the stainless pin causing iron sickness at a later date.

 

[Tranona]

If you are going down the route of epoxy wood, either strip plank or laminated veneers then you should buy the Gougeon Brothers (West epoxy) book on boatbuilding. The seminal work on these construction methods full of information on designs and techniques.

Now you are into Watercraft worth giving Pete Greenfield (owner and editor) a call as he is a mine of information about the modern home build scene.