Wireless radar, to a tablet

[Fascadale]

Does anyone have any experience of using a wireless radar directly onto a tablet, without going through a plotter or MFD?

Furuno have a product that does this 1st Watch Wireless Radar DRS4W | Marine Radar | Products | FURUNO

This thread on Cruisers Forum Review Furuno DRS4W Radar 4 iPad - Cruisers & Sailing Forums has some interesting comments on the Furuno but it also says that the BandG and Raymarine equivalents will also run directly onto Open CPN

I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money on an MFD that I maybe do not need. Having now sailed thousands of miles using a tablet as my main electronic navigational aid, with wireless AIS, I see no point in having an MFD. I would also be quite happy to sail with two tablet screens visible, one radar the other plotter.

Thanks

 

[prv]

The Furuno one was a good idea in principle, but they didn't do a particularly good job of the details and now seem to consider it a failed experiment and dead-end product that won't be updated.

Are you sure about the Raymarine radars and OpenCPN? First I've heard of it. I was only aware of Navico support (that protocol was reverse-engineered ages ago) and the thread you linked also mentions Garmin.

No personal experience (I have a Raymarine radar connected over ethernet to an Axiom plotter) but if you're happy with OpenCPN then I think you'd be best served with a Navico radar (B&G, Simrad, or Lowrance brands). They seem to be the most commonly and longest used with OpenCPN and hence best supported. I don't know if they sell any radomes with wifi built in, but if you already have wireless AIS then you probably don't want another SSID in the mix anyway. Wire the radar into your existing network instead. The Navico radars use standard multicast UDP.

Pete

 

[laika]

OpenCPN radar support page:
FAQ Radar [OpenCPN Manuals]

Note that B&G and Garmin design their products to be connected to plotters via a physical wire. Depending on the wireless router you use, the multicast prv refers to above doesn't necessarily always work well over wifi

 

[RobbieW]

Note that B&G and Garmin design their products to be connected to plotters via a physical wire. Depending on the wireless router you use, the multicast prv refers to above doesn't necessarily always work well over wifi

Support 'should' be better than it was if only because IPTV services, which rely on the same mechanism, are much more prevalent than when we were looking at this 8 or so years ago. I moved away from Tomato based routers, support dissappeared, to OpenWRT based. My OCPN instance on the laptop is usually hardwired to the router which is hardwired to the Navico radar output. Routers still use the 'igmpproxy' package to implement multicast on IPv4 so far as I can see

 

[Neeves]

A lot of the cost of the MFD is in the screen - big screens cost lots of money

Why not look at buying the smallest screen of whatever system you like, or the cheapest manufacture of the system you like and then WiFi to the tablet. You then have redundancy and get use of your tablet. We did this with Simrad, 7" screen, but the big screen of the iPad Pro. The 7" screen sits at the helm and we simply carry the iPad around with us. What ever adjustments you want to make on the MFD you can do on the iPad - but you know all this.

Jonathan

 

[prv]

Doesn't the iPad mirroring of the plotter screen use the same resolution, though? I'm fairly sure that's what the Raymarine one does at least. So if you get a small plotter screen you'll have a low-resolution display on the iPad, regardless of its physical size.

Pete

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I looked at this last year, or perhaps the year before?
Getting Raymarine WIFI radars into Open CPN was being worked on, the last I heard was that they were looking to borrow a radar dome to test it on.
A quick search came up with this:
Raymarine radar_pi support · Issue #79 · opencpn-radar-pi/radar_pi
However, I don't see any evidence of it being incorporate into version 5.2.
Might be worth a dig around the open CPN sites to see what the latest situation is.
I have Raymarine "e" series MDF's installed in 2013, I think, could have been later, and although they still function, some of the mechanical switches and now dodgy and the touch screen temperamental. Now I don't switch the MDFs off at the device, I simply cut the DC power.
The cost of replacement is putting me off upgrading, when Raymarine kits is superseded very quickly and they stop supporting "legacy" equipment, with upgrades and fixes.
Using a tablet, may well be a viable alternative.

 

[ithet]

Doesn't the iPad mirroring of the plotter screen use the same resolution, though? I'm fairly sure that's what the Raymarine one does at least. So if you get a small plotter screen you'll have a low-resolution display on the iPad, regardless of its physical size.

Pete

Yes, that is what happens when mirroring the Raymarine plotter. I don't see how others would be different.

 

[Neeves]

Yes, that is what happens when mirroring the Raymarine plotter. I don't see how others would be different.

It maybe correct but to look at a chart - does it matter. Using a 7" MFD and a 13" iPad seems perfectly satisfactory to us - and we have been using it for 3 years now. Maybe if you expect the resolution to be as good (or expect to see high definition video) as on a large MFD screen, for minimalist spend, you might be disappointed.

Jonathan

 

[matt8442]

Used the furuno 1st watch radar on our boat for the past three years now, it’s good, but not when you compare it with most modern radar systems. It’s easy to use, easy to install and doesn’t use too much power. Plus you can use two screens off the same ray dome so if you had an iPad or tablet at the helm you could also have an old iPhone or tablet below decks if you wished. Also you can overlay Tz marine charts over the display to make visualising the display easier. Overall not a bad unit, does what it’s supposed to and is pretty easy to use.

 

[prv]

Maybe if you expect the resolution to be as good (or expect to see high definition video) as on a large MFD screen, for minimalist spend, you might be disappointed.

I’d expect the resolution to be as good as the hardware I’d bought to view it on, and yes, I would be disappointed in a solution that artificially limited it below that.

If someone wants to use a generic tablet or PC instead of paying for a plotter, running OpenCPN natively at that device’s resolution seems like a better solution than buying a small plotter and clunkily mirroring it.

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

Personally, i wouldn't want wireless radar, wind, or anything else. I know people who have had them and they report them as being less than 100% reliable. I have wireless wing (Garmin), which i bought because it was a half price clearance item, i wish i'd have paid full price for a wired one. It's OK most of the time, but at random times it just doesn't work, for a while.

 

[Neeves]

Personally, i wouldn't want wireless radar, wind, or anything else. I know people who have had them and they report them as being less than 100% reliable. I have wireless wing (Garmin), which i bought because it was a half price clearance item, i wish i'd have paid full price for a wired one. It's OK most of the time, but at random times it just doesn't work, for a while.

We have never had a problem but our WiFi to tablet is not critical - its just nice to be in the galley stirring the porridge,, looking out of the windows but with the tablet mirroring the MFD display at the helm. Its equally useful to be in a berth off watch and know what's happening on deck. Its also marvellous that we can use radar wirelessly - its not long ago, 20 years, they were big clunky devices with cables like game fishing rods - now - no cables (though we still use a cable for the MFD).

But we do have a (7") MFD

Jonathan

 

[PaulRainbow]

We have never had a problem but our WiFi to tablet is not critical - its just nice to be in the galley stirring the porridge,, looking out of the windows but with the tablet mirroring the MFD display at the helm. Its equally useful to be in a berth off watch and know what's happening on deck. Its also marvellous that we can use radar wirelessly - its not long ago, 20 years, they were big clunky devices with cables like game fishing rods - now - no cables (though we still use a cable for the MFD).

But we do have a (7") MFD

Jonathan

The wind transducer is mostly OK, but even if it stops working for a while i's not mission critical.

The rest of the WiFi stuff onboard works flawlessly, I've got a Pi4 and a laptop permanently networked vis a WIFI router, using the internet via a mobile hotspot on my phone. The laptop is connected to a bulkhead mounted 24" LED TV, acting as a monitor. My work laptop and tablet also connect to the router when they are on. The tablet serves two main purposes, it's a backup for the MFD and it's a second station for all nav' data. I use mine the reverse of yours, the MFD (12") is at the helm, networked to depth, wind, speed, autopilot etc and the 10" Samsung Galaxy tablet mirrors this. Can't say i've noticed any of the resolution issues mentioned previously, although the MFD is 1280 x 800, it's still lower than the tablet is capable of, but the charts look fine.

So i suspect that it's just a case of the wind transducer being 40ft up the mast and something or other interferes with it, at odd times.

 

[Neeves]

The wind transducer is mostly OK, but even if it stops working for a while i's not mission critical.

The rest of the WiFi stuff onboard works flawlessly, I've got a Pi4 and a laptop permanently networked vis a WIFI router, using the internet via a mobile hotspot on my phone. The laptop is connected to a bulkhead mounted 24" LED TV, acting as a monitor. My work laptop and tablet also connect to the router when they are on. The tablet serves two main purposes, it's a backup for the MFD and it's a second station for all nav' data. I use mine the reverse of yours, the MFD (12") is at the helm, networked to depth, wind, speed, autopilot etc and the 10" Samsung Galaxy tablet mirrors this. Can't say i've noticed any of the resolution issues mentioned previously, although the MFD is 1280 x 800, it's still lower than the tablet is capable of, but the charts look fine.

So i suspect that it's just a case of the wind transducer being 40ft up the mast and something or other interferes with it, at odd times.

Ah!

Our instruments/transducers are all hard wired to the mfd, radar, wind, depth, SOG, position etc - we are only wireless from wifi to tablet. We also have independent displays for wind, depth, SOG etc, at the helm, repeated on the adjacent MFD (7").

Having sailed the China Sea without instruments, other than a Walker log and a compass, I believe in redundancy, and 2 independent navigational systems. The penalties for 'missing' Hong Kong (its actually quite a small location) are hefty and unpleasant (or they were then) and not an exercise to repeat.

Jonathan

 

[lustyd]

Doesn't the iPad mirroring of the plotter screen use the same resolution, though? I'm fairly sure that's what the Raymarine one does at least. So if you get a small plotter screen you'll have a low-resolution display on the iPad, regardless of its physical size.

Pete

You’re assuming the larger MFDs are better, as did I until I tried the 24” glasshelm at the boat show and laughed out loud when I realised the exceptionally expensive screen had the exact same display output as my 9”, it was like there was a magnifying glass in front of a small plotter.
definitely an industry that needs to mature!

 

[PaulRainbow]

You’re assuming the larger MFDs are better, as did I until I tried the 24” glasshelm at the boat show and laughed out loud when I realised the exceptionally expensive screen had the exact same display output as my 9”, it was like there was a magnifying glass in front of a small plotter.
definitely an industry that needs to mature!

Larger screens do, as far as i'm aware, have a higher screen resolution. I assume you looked at the Zeus 3 24" glass helm, which 9" MFD do you have that has the same 1920x1080 resolution ?

 

[lustyd]

Larger screens do, as far as i'm aware, have a higher screen resolution. I assume you looked at the Zeus 3 24" glass helm, which 9" MFD do you have that has the same 1920x1080 resolution ?

Panel resolution and display resolution are not the same thing in all instances, although it's entirely possible that to reduce cost they use "high def" resolution panels throughout. Navico are clearly rendering to a standard output virtual screen such that it works all the way down to 5" and then just scaling that image to whatever panel is installed. It's horific and if I'd spent enough to get the 24" one I'd be giving them some very frank feedback while getting a refund. They don't use the extra space at all.

 

[Daverw]

The wind transducer is mostly OK, but even if it stops working for a while i's not mission critical.

The rest of the WiFi stuff onboard works flawlessly, I've got a Pi4 and a laptop permanently networked vis a WIFI router, using the internet via a mobile hotspot on my phone. The laptop is connected to a bulkhead mounted 24" LED TV, acting as a monitor. My work laptop and tablet also connect to the router when they are on. The tablet serves two main purposes, it's a backup for the MFD and it's a second station for all nav' data. I use mine the reverse of yours, the MFD (12") is at the helm, networked to depth, wind, speed, autopilot etc and the 10" Samsung Galaxy tablet mirrors this. Can't say i've noticed any of the resolution issues mentioned previously, although the MFD is 1280 x 800, it's still lower than the tablet is capable of, but the charts look fine.

So i suspect that it's just a case of the wind transducer being 40ft up the mast and something or other interferes with it, at odd times.

I found that it was the mast itself reducing signal to the display, Tacktick stuff, after speaking to Raymarine I found out that the nmea interface that was below the chart table would act as a receiver/ repeater, moved that to forward cabin and never had an issue since

 

[PaulRainbow]

I found that it was the mast itself reducing signal to the display, Tacktick stuff, after speaking to Raymarine I found out that the nmea interface that was below the chart table would act as a receiver/ repeater, moved that to forward cabin and never had an issue since

The black box for my wind transducer is in the top of a wardrobe, under the deck and the transducer is at the top of the mast, so not sure if it will help moving the black box forward. It's rather defeating the object of having wireless though, rnning N2K cabling to the forward cabbing can be more work than just dropping a cable down the mast.