Will Schengen be suspended for two or three years.

[BurnitBlue]

Why should I be googling for you?
The Schengen agreement may mean that internal traffic goes mostly unchecked but it does not remove the obligation of travellers to carry the required travel documents. If stopped for any reason the police check ID and have access to the Schengen databases. They can demand further evidence of your movements, should they choose.

Are you for real. I have lived in Sweden for 30 years and driven all over EU and I have never been asked to see my passport except when entering and leaving Schengen for UK. That was not avoidance, there was simply no one to record my movements with.

As for the police demanding evidence of my movements, what evidence would that be. Perhaps a reciept for a hambuger from macdees. Stop making things up.You have been watching too many movies.

 

[Bouba]

Are you for real. I have lived in Sweden for 30 years and driven all over EU and I have never been asked to see my passport except when entering and leaving Schengen for UK. That was not avoidance, there was simply no one to record my movements with.

As for the police demanding evidence of my movements, what evidence would that be. Perhaps a reciept for a hambuger from macdees. Stop making things up.

Going through a motorway toll booth is evidence

 

[BurnitBlue]

This should do it, when it comes on-line (scheduled 2022): ETIAS - European Travel Information and Authorisation System

Thanks for the link. I will take note at the end of 2022. In the meantime it still does not address the inter member travel within Schengen. Only with control when passing into or out of Schengen. No change there it seems. Maybe by the end of 2022 they will sort something out. Or maybe some members of the present EU will hsve geed up and deed off.

 

[179580]

This should do it, when it comes on-line (scheduled 2022): ETIAS - European Travel Information and Authorisation System

Herein lies another can of worms.
You must enter EU in the Country you have stated, you can then travel for 90 days.

Ok, so I enter France, travel thru say Italy, return home. Some time later I decide to visit maybe Malta. Do I have to enter again through France?

 

[Koeketiene]

Herein lies another can of worms.
You must enter EU in the Country you have stated, you can then travel for 90 days.

Ok, so I enter France, travel thru say Italy, return home. Some time later I decide to visit maybe Malta. Do I have to enter again through France?

This might be of some assistance to you: Schengen Calculator - Calculate Your Legal Short-Stay in Europe

 

[nortada]

What follows is my attempt to de-construct the message from “DG juss” posted by Graham376. I will used bullet points to remove interpretations of Grammer.

• 
  
• Basically the message says that transit through Schengen Member States from another Schengen Member State where the person is a resident does not count against a 90/180 allowance coming or going. The passport does not need to be stamped to record arrival or departure. The resident card becomes King.
• There is no time limit for transit indicated in the message. By Air, Sea or Land. So why is this ridiculous concesion applied only to residents. There is nowhere in the EU where a transit would take longer than 90 days without stepping outside Schengen.
• A visitor from USA hits the ground running and the clock starts ticking the day they land in Paris to transit via bus to Athens.
• Did anyone question why this does not apply to residents during their passage through member states. There are many non EU countries that qualify for visa free travel up to 90/180.
• I did and my conclusion is that it is there is no 90/180 restriction for residents of a Schengen Member state because they already have permission to stay in Schengen 360/360 by virtue of being granted residence.
• I think the message from “DG juss” was an answer to a SPECIFIC question about whether transit to or from a resident state impacts against 90/180. The simple answer should have been “No, 90/180 limits do not apply to residents of a member state because they already have 360/360 by virtue of the grant of residence inside Schengen. In USA it is called an Indian Treaty where a big deal is made granting rights Indians they already had before the cavelry rode into town.
• There is absolutely no mechanism to book out of Schengen to another Schengen member state. Departure and arrival gates are segregated to their respective destination in or out of Schengen. This to me is a “de facto” understanding that it is not required. If effort was addressed to the non existant problem of transit then they would have addressed the real problem of passport control for residents travelling between member states.
• Your last post implied that if a person did not have a valid Ditch residence permit he was not allowed to spend 90/180 in any Schengen member state. Clearly ridiculous.
• I have also looked for links exclusive for residents and I conclude there are non simply because the restriction does not exist. Like permission to breathe.

Basically Graham, messages are open to interpretation. Project fear is an example where half truths were used to bias opinion. It is still going on with the added problem of fake news. The above is my take on the available EVIDENCE. There is the old saying that European law is based on Napoleonic Law where a person is guilty until proved innocent. British law (justice) is based on Innocent until proved guilty. If true then EU law is based on guilty until proved innocent. We cannot, as born and bred Brits, look at EU edicts as if it was based on innocent until proved guilty. We should assume that if we are given permission as residents of a Schengen State to remain in that Schengen state for 360/360 it does apply to that other(apparently) fictional Schengen state outside the resident Schengen state. Show us the law that discriminates the Schengen states- You may have guessed I find this subject quite fascinating-

We have all been around this particular buoy so many times, I, for one am dizzy.??

Graham is one of many on here who have busted a gut to get to the bottom of the Schengen 90/180 rule and posts with the authority of one who has lead much of the research.

To suggest he is a troll is both wrong and offensive and has no place in the Liveaboard Link. Especially when the protagonist intends to bog off to the Caribbean. However, I understand, he may still come into contact with it in some of the French possessions?

In here, the problems the EU will have implementing Schengen are well understood and the arguments regularly rehearsed but the 90/180 is simple and easy to enforce when people come to leave the Schengen Zone.

As has been observed, in European (Napoleonic), guilty ‘til proved innocent is the order of the day. Currently, Covid Restrictions are clouding the Schengen issues but, later this year, as the fog clears, I suspect we will be treated to some interesting situations.

 

[Caraway]

Just stay at home.

 

[179580]

This might be of some assistance to you: Schengen Calculator - Calculate Your Legal Short-Stay in Europe

Nothing to do with length of stay. All about the point of entry.

 

[Bouba]

Although the odds of being caught is negligible the punishment could be egregious. You may be denied further entry and could even have a deportation stamp on your passport

 

[Koeketiene]

Nothing to do with length of stay. All about the point of entry.

Unless I've missed something (quite possible) I can't find anything where it says you have to leave the the same way you entered.
In other words, I don't see/understand your problem.

 

[RAI]

Currently, the EU has little interest in third country nationals resident in one EU state breaking the 90/180 day rule in other EU states. So not much effort is put into chasing them. Now there will be a million or so more Brits in the third country list, resident in one member state or another, who might bend the 90/180 rule, things might change if they make a nuisance of themselves. Most will have little problem keeping within the 90/180 day rule. Those with multiple properties or working beyond their country of residence might draw more attention to themselves.
Then UK's treatment of EU nationals of settled status might cause reactions in the EU.

 

[179580]

Unless I've missed something (quite possible) I can't find anything where it says you have to leave the the same way you entered.
In other words, I don't see/understand your problem.

It states you must enter the EU in the country you nominate. If you leave the Shengen, do you have to re-enter the same nominated country?

 

[nortada]

Although the odds of being caught is negligible the punishment could be egregious. You may be denied further entry and could even have a deportation stamp on your passport

Among some this could be a badge of honour. Provided you are not planning to return to the Schengen Zone. Lose passport to get a replacement. Can’t see the UK either knowing about or caring about your transgression so with a clean passport, once again you would be up and running (out of Europe).

 

[Bouba]

Among some this could be a badge of honour. Provided you are not planning to return to the Schengen Zone. Lose passport to get a replacement. Can’t see the UK either knowing about or caring about your transgression so with a clean passport, once again you would be up and running (out of Europe).

But passports are no longer bits of cards and paper they are data bases

 

[nortada]

But passports are no longer bits of cards and paper they are data bases

So true but you have to have access to the database to interrogate the passport.

Will non-Schengen countries have access to the Schengen Database and if so will they be compatible and work

From experience, I would venture vanishingly unlikely. More likely the database in question will just identify that bit of the data it needs and ignore the rest.

On a lighter note, I think it likely, whilst the Schengen 90/180 will exist for the foreseeable future, a number of countries, for good economic reasons, will modify their national rules to permit stays in excess of 90 days or just turn a blind eye.

How this will work with Schengen, I haven’t the foggiest‼

 

[Bouba]

So true but you have to have access to the database to interrogate the passport.

Will non-Schengen countries have access to the Schengen Database and if so will they be compatible and work

From experience, I would venture vanishingly unlikely. More likely the database in question will just identify that bit of the data it needs and ignore the rest.

On a lighter note, I think it likely, whilst the Schengen 90/180 will exist for the foreseeable future, a number of countries, for good economic reasons, will modify their national rules to permit stays in excess of 90 days or just turn a blind eye.

How this will work with Schengen, I haven’t the foggiest‼

I agree the chances of being caught are tiny. But sometimes they can be very officious here

 

[AndersG]

Graham is one of many on here who have busted a gut to get to the bottom of the Schengen 90/180 rule and posts with the authority of one who has lead much of the research.

To suggest he is a troll is both wrong and offensive and has no place in the Liveaboard Link. Especially when the protagonist intends to bog off to the Caribbean. However, I understand, he may still come into contact with it in some of the French possessions?

Beers are on me if I ever meet Graham. He made me realize that my wife who is British citizen only can travel with me that is still an EU citizen for as long as we want. I did ask the EU and they confirmed that we are not bound by the 90/180!

 

[Tranona]

Then UK's treatment of EU nationals of settled status might cause reactions in the EU.

Yes they may well recognise how well they have been treated by the UK and think about reciprocating.

Latest Home Office estimates suggest that 5m EU citizens will apply for eventual settled status. I wonder what attracts them to want to live in the UK rather than in the apparently utopian EU?

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

Yes they may well recognise how well they have been treated by the UK and think about reciprocating.

Latest Home Office estimates suggest that 5m EU citizens will apply for eventual settled status. I wonder what attracts them to want to live in the UK rather than in the apparently utopian EU?

If my personal experiences are anything to go by - they had jobs in the UK prior to the referendum and applied for settled status as a prudent thing to do when the scheme was launched.

A good number of them have since returned to thier home country (in the EU) to progress thier careers

 

[Tranona]

If my personal experiences are anything to go by - they had jobs in the UK prior to the referendum and applied for settled status as a prudent thing to do when the scheme was launched.

A good number of them have since returned to thier home country (in the EU) to progress thier careers

No doubt some of them have - and equally some are returning. However the migration to the UK has always been much higher than either the other way round, or between any other EU states - and most were for work rather than retirement! The original estimate was 3.5m, but latest estimates of those that left are less than originally anticipated and those returning greater. Covid or course muddies the waters but when the economy picks up many of those who have the right to return will - for all the same reasons they came here in the first place.