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Will British Registered Boats already in Europe command a premium in 2021

Star-Lord

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I hope this is in the correct forum.

Will UK residents wishing to cruise in the Med be better off purchasing a boat that is already in Europe as of Jan 2021? It would seem so to me. Therefore will there be a premium to pay for such a boat? It would seem only fair... how much of a premium?

There are still plenty of countries to stay in outside Schengen (Tunisia, Turkey, Albania, Montenegro etc) so 90 days in Greece and 90 days in Turkey or 90 days in Mallorca and 90 days in Tunisia (for example) is still quite a nice lifestyle if wanting to liveaboard in a decent climate in Europe after transition and for those not wishing to become resident in another country.

Brexit guidance is updated for recreational boaters
 

RupertW

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I hope this is in the correct forum.

Will UK residents wishing to cruise in the Med be better off purchasing a boat that is already in Europe as of Jan 2021? It would seem so to me. Therefore will there be a premium to pay for such a boat? It would seem only fair... how much of a premium?

There are still plenty of countries to stay in outside Schengen (Tunisia, Turkey, Albania, Montenegro etc) so 90 days in Greece and 90 days in Turkey or 90 days in Mallorca and 90 days in Tunisia (for example) is still quite a nice lifestyle if wanting to liveaboard in a decent climate in Europe after transition and for those not wishing to become resident in another country.

Brexit guidance is updated for recreational boaters
The registry doesn’t matter - just whether it’s VAT paid in the EU at the end of the transition.
 

Star-Lord

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The registry doesn’t matter - just whether it’s VAT paid in the EU at the end of the transition.
If a British citizen wants a British registered boat then registry is important imo. For example a Italian registered boat in Italy has considerable annual 'fees' to be paid unlike a British reg boat. My Italian neighbour has guarded his British registry jealously for many years.

Admittedly a Dutch or Belgian registered boat may also have similar advantages but if after a few years a return to the UK is considered then having a 'foreign' registered boat in UK may have 'fees; imposed on it and may be harder to sell back in UK?

I think a British registered boat in Europe may command a premium to prospective British buyers in the future. Unless of course changing from say German registered to UK registered after Brexit is as painless as it is now?
 

Stemar

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I wonder how long it'll be before France realised that it usually takes longer than 3 months, or however long we'll be allowed, and a decent minority of the boats using their canals can't do it any more.
 

Clancy Moped

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If a British citizen wants a British registered boat then registry is important imo. For example a Italian registered boat in Italy has considerable annual 'fees' to be paid unlike a British reg boat. My Italian neighbour has guarded his British registry jealously for many years.

Admittedly a Dutch or Belgian registered boat may also have similar advantages but if after a few years a return to the UK is considered then having a 'foreign' registered boat in UK may have 'fees; imposed on it and may be harder to sell back in UK?

I think a British registered boat in Europe may command a premium to prospective British buyers in the future. Unless of course changing from say German registered to UK registered after Brexit is as painless as it is now?
Once you can prove vat paid for the second time......maybe.
 

Graham376

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Will UK residents wishing to cruise in the Med be better off purchasing a boat that is already in Europe as of Jan 2021? It would seem so to me. Therefore will there be a premium to pay for such a boat? It would seem only fair... how much of a premium?
Yes they would be better buying in EU if the boat is VAT paid but, if they bring the boat back to the UK sometime in the future, VAT will be payable. Compared to a UK based boat on which VAT would be due if brought into EU for >18 months then, in theory, it should be worth more.
 

Star-Lord

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Yes they would be better buying in EU if the boat is VAT paid but, if they bring the boat back to the UK sometime in the future, VAT will be payable. Compared to a UK based boat on which VAT would be due if brought into EU for >18 months then, in theory, it should be worth more.
LOL if I bring my boat back to UK in a year or two I will not be paying VAT surely!? It has been paid once already!

A UK boat in Med on Jan 2021 will have UK VAT paid and will be VAT paid in EU as well. But if it leaves the EU (For how long?) will VAT be asked again in EU?

Brexit be damned. Boris Cunningham are well deserved imo.
 

lw395

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LOL if I bring my boat back to UK in a year or two I will not be paying VAT surely!? It has been paid once already!

A UK boat in Med on Jan 2021 will have UK VAT paid and will be VAT paid in EU as well. But if it leaves the EU (For how long?) will VAT be asked again in EU?

Brexit be damned. Boris Cunningham are well deserved imo.
You can bring your boat back to the UK and no VAT will be due.
But if you sell it while it's outside the UK next year, the new owner would have to pay VAT to import it into the UK.
 

Graham376

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You can bring your boat back to the UK and no VAT will be due.
But if you sell it while it's outside the UK next year, the new owner would have to pay VAT to import it into the UK.
They have us by the short and curlies. After we exit, buy a boat in the EU and pay VAT if taking it to UK . Take a UK based boat to the EU and VAT is due there after 18 months. As said above, UK VAT paid boats returning to the UK under the same ownership as when taken out, don't pay VAT. My guess is there will be some very constructive paperwork on sale of boats, to suit its preferred location on sale. :)
 

Koeketiene

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Admittedly a Dutch or Belgian registered boat may also have similar advantages but if after a few years a return to the UK is considered then having a 'foreign' registered boat in UK may have 'fees; imposed on it and may be harder to sell back in UK?
1. Belgian registry is no longer that easy to obtain - as I found out when I registered my 'new' boat last month.
Being a Belgian national but French resident the amount of paperwork and checks was quite significant.
Apart from the paperwork associated with the boat I was asked to produce proof of nationality, birth certificate and proof of residence (verified by the embassy in Paris).

Ten years ago, it was quite common to see a large number of Belgian registered boats in France.
It was particular popular with the French as was some sort of VAT / boat tax dodge as well as a way of getting around some of the French safety requirements.
When we moved our previous boat to Brittany in 2016, there were about a dozen Belgian registered yachts on the Odet river, last year I was the only left.

2. When you bring your own boat back to the UK from abroad, there are no taxes / fees to be paid.
 

RupertW

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You can bring your boat back to the UK and no VAT will be due.
But if you sell it while it's outside the UK next year, the new owner would have to pay VAT to import it into the UK.
And it’s not even clear that the original owner won’t have to pay UK VAT again. The EU is very clear that if the boat is in the EU on transition day then it is EU vat paid only. cannot also be UK vat paid.
However the UK government has said it will treat them as EU and UK vat paid but that is not in legislation yet and may be another broken promise.
 

Graham376

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And it’s not even clear that the original owner won’t have to pay UK VAT again. The EU is very clear that if the boat is in the EU on transition day then it is EU vat paid only. cannot also be UK vat paid.
However the UK government has said it will treat them as EU and UK vat paid but that is not in legislation yet and may be another broken promise.
Can be brought back to the UK under the same ownership (in the same state of repair as when exported) using Returned Goods Relief which has been the case for years.
 

RupertW

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Can be brought back to the UK under the same ownership (in the same state of repair as when exported) using Returned Goods Relief which has been the case for years.
That doesn’t make sense - it isn’t returned goods if it has become EU VAT paid only and therefore lost its UK VAT status. That is what will happen unless the UK legislates (as it has promised to do) to allow goods to be both EU and UK VAT paid based on the same VAT transaction.
 

lw395

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That doesn’t make sense - it isn’t returned goods if it has become EU VAT paid only and therefore lost its UK VAT status. That is what will happen unless the UK legislates (as it has promised to do) to allow goods to be both EU and UK VAT paid based on the same VAT transaction.
It doesn't necessarily work like that.
Boats in particular occupy a strange niche between 'goods' 'chattels' and 'ships'.
'VAT paid' is not the status. 'union goods' or 'UK goods' is a more meaningful status.
There are goods circulating freely without any VAT having been paid.
 

Graham376

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That doesn’t make sense - it isn’t returned goods if it has become EU VAT paid only and therefore lost its UK VAT status. That is what will happen unless the UK legislates (as it has promised to do) to allow goods to be both EU and UK VAT paid based on the same VAT transaction.
Take the case of a UK owned and based boat, it is UK VAT paid which also means at the moment it is EU VAT paid and free to roam. The EU are saying that if the UK owned boat has left the EU at the point we leave, it will be treated as exported from the EU. Non EU citizens (which we will become) it appears are not entitled to EU Returned Goods Relief if they take the boat back in to EU but, UK citizens are allowed UK Returned Goods Relief when importing back into the UK, just as if you have been away from the UK on a world cruise for a few years. There are several VAT notices covering the Relief. Whatever the EU says about rescinding VAT paid status, that only applies within the EU.
 

JBJag27

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There are plenty of people who take their boats to the US, Carribean, Morocco, The Isle of Man, Norway etc etc, without having a big VAT problem when they get back.
 

Bobc

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My understanding is that if you have an asset (i.e. a boat) in the EU which is EU VET-paid, then when you repatriate it, you will not have to pay VAT as per the returned good relief.

So if you have a UK-registered boat in the EU with EU VAT paid status, you can bring it back into the UK and not pay VAT again.
 

Resolution

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Take the case of a UK owned and based boat, it is UK VAT paid which also means at the moment it is EU VAT paid and free to roam. The EU are saying that if the UK owned boat has left the EU at the point we leave, it will be treated as exported from the EU. Non EU citizens (which we will become) it appears are not entitled to EU Returned Goods Relief if they take the boat back in to EU but, UK citizens are allowed UK Returned Goods Relief when importing back into the UK, just as if you have been away from the UK on a world cruise for a few years. There are several VAT notices covering the Relief. Whatever the EU says about rescinding VAT paid status, that only applies within the EU.
Graham
You seem to be more clued up on this subject than most of us. Regarding UK Returned Goods Relief, is there any time limit on how long the UK vat paid boat may be outside the UK? I recall mention of three years max.
Secondly, do we know of any cases where this relief has actually been claimed on yachts? I suspect that most returning yachts just ignore the whole VAT question.
Peter
 

Graham376

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Graham
You seem to be more clued up on this subject than most of us. Regarding UK Returned Goods Relief, is there any time limit on how long the UK vat paid boat may be outside the UK? I recall mention of three years max.
Secondly, do we know of any cases where this relief has actually been claimed on yachts? I suspect that most returning yachts just ignore the whole VAT question. Peter
Problem is, we don't know what deals may or not be made with EU so anything can change. Because my boat has been EU based for 14 years, I phoned the VAT help line to find out what the position is. They said any time inside the EU before we exit, is the same as being in the UK. Time out of the UK will begin on date we exit. From what I could gather, Returned Goods Relief was originally aimed at commercial goods exported temporarily and had a 3 year limit which could be extended under some circumstances. From what they said, there has never been a formal time limit on cruising boats returning but I don't know anyone who has been through the process - as you suggest, they most likely don't declare return. There always has been relief for former emigrants returning with personal possessions. I think I received an email from them but if I still have it, will be on the boat computer.

Just found a couple of emails from VAT. Remember I was asking about UK boats based in EU now -
Public notice Public notice 236 para 2.5 advises under what circumstance the 3 year time limit can be waived. In regard to your query post EU Exit, an extension remains in place until 31 January 2020. GOV.UK will be updated with any changes, so please check www.gov.uk/brexit for any updates.

I then replied - Unfortunately, there is still the unanswered question about the export date. As we are part of the Customs Union at the moment with free movement of VAT paid boats throughout the EU, has a UK boat having left UK waters been exported already or, does it become exported from the UK on the date we exit the EU?

Their reply to that - As NIRU are a processing office your best port of call would be to contact the Import and Export General enquiries line who should be able to answer your query. The telephone number is 0300 200 3700.

I then phoned as they suggested and was told date of export would be when we exited EU.
 
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