Why are North sails so expensive ?

[Delfini]

Im researching suppliers for a new racing main - the boat is 48 feet with a big rig and heavy and I want a new race sail for long’ish offshore events next year - and hopefully a few more years thereafter - I don’t want the absolute best race sail in the world but it needs to be competitive and last a few years

Initial feedback suggest North have a great reputation with their 3Di range but their prices are at least 50% higher than other suppliers using similar laminate materials and design/s

Is there a general opinion of North - are they up there with the best - is their pricing justified

Thanks for advice

 

[TernVI]

Nobody ever got mocked for buying a North sail.
Whether they areworth the cost depends on whether you are racing at a level where a small performance drop from cheaper sails will make a difference.
There are many other sailmakers who have made race winning sails, there are many 'not very good' sails made every year.
Longish offshore events? How many of those are decided by having slightly better sails? Are you likely to win anyway? If spending 50% more bumps you up 'n' places, do you see value in that? What do you want from it all?

 

[Birdseye]

In business, a cost is a fact ( or at least thats what the beancounters will say) but a price is a decision. North prices are so high because people will pay them.

 

[Laser310]

3Di sails - except maybe the 3di raw - are bombproof.., i don't know if any other sail maker has a technology with as good a shape-holding and overall longevity as 3di.., and if they do, i wonder if they are extending that technology down the range to cruising sails as north is.

that doesn't necessarily mean 3di is worth the cost

there are many levels/varieties of 3di technology - which one are you looking at?

I sail and race on a variety of different boats - they pretty much all have 3di, especially the large offshore catamarans. Those generate tremendous loads on the sails - the main sheets are hydraulic. A big heavy monohull isn't necessarily very highly loaded. the main determinant of forces on the rigging and sails is the righting moment of the boat. Some older boats don't have that great a righting moment, so they heel over, which limits the loads. Cats never really heel more than 10 deg - they have enormous stability, and generate high loads. Some deep drafted and wide monohulls are also stiff and highly loaded.

 

[matt1]

They aren't expensive....or at least mine wasn't! I trawled all round SIBS last year and was amazed that the cheapest 88sq m (nylon) Genneker, with top down furler was from North. It's also superb! Previous year I'd got quotes for laminate main and headsail from them for a potential 40' i was thinking of buying and again they were highly competitive. Maybe I just got the boat show prices?

 

[ashtead]

They have a global network so if you have left the WI with your North sails and pitch up in Gibraltar and have issues they pitch up in their van to take away and sort out . I guess you just pay for that somehow.

 

[Bullsails]

They are primarily owned by Oakley Equity, an investment company. They have a large corporate structure and do a lot of marketing. Which has worked well for them.

 

[michael_w]

Twice I've had dreadful service from North UK. Never again,

 

[Fantasie 19]

In business, a cost is a fact ( or at least thats what the beancounters will say) but a price is a decision. North prices are so high because people will pay them.

Yup - same reason people buy Levi's rather than M&S own brand..

 

[flaming]

Im researching suppliers for a new racing main - the boat is 48 feet with a big rig and heavy and I want a new race sail for long’ish offshore events next year - and hopefully a few more years thereafter - I don’t want the absolute best race sail in the world but it needs to be competitive and last a few years

Initial feedback suggest North have a great reputation with their 3Di range but their prices are at least 50% higher than other suppliers using similar laminate materials and design/s

Is there a general opinion of North - are they up there with the best - is their pricing justified

Thanks for advice

With the caveat that it's been a while since I've sailed with anything not North....

3DI is just incredible. We have a full suite of 3DI on the boat from 2016 and it's all still holding a really good shape. One sail has been back to the loft where a batten pocket had worn through, but other than that it's really been essentially trouble free. And this is the raw product that is less bombproof.
In all the years I've been racing with laminates this is such a big step up. After 2-3 seasons with an old style string sail the shape might still be there to an extent, but it was going back to the loft for tlc frequently.

If you're looking for shapeholding and longevity, it does exactly this.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Twice I've had dreadful service from North UK. Never again,

They made both my headsail & mainsail wrong, badly irretrievably wrong. By the time they had remade them it took over a year to get my sails & I missed a season with the new sails I had paid for. They promised a free upgrade because of the delay. They then reneged on the promise. Never again.

 

[James_Calvert]

That's sad.

We had a new genoa from them in 2004. I did the measurements, all turned out fine.

A new main from them in 2014, they measured up this time as the boat was then in Gosport. All fine.

Neither sail hi tech, just their good quality dacron, and their prices were only a little higher than the competition each time, for in my eyes better cloth.

 

[Bullsails]

North's Dacron is woven at Glen Raven mills and finished at Kenyon just as it has been for decades. North now pays Contender US to manage that production since Contender is making virtually identical fabrics at the same facilities. It's mutually beneficial to both companies, but the Dacron cloth styles North uses for big boats still have North part numbers and roll labels. North OD uses these and a couple dozen other styles from Contender and D/P.

 

[Ingwe]

Just a small thing on sail pricing, pretty much all of the big lofts use some form of "seasonal" pricing formula, north did used to publish their version and the cheapest months are about 20% lower in price than the most expensive months, I think cheapest used to be ordering September / October for delivery the following March. Another factor is currency fluctuations as some lofts are more susceptible to £/$ and others to £/€ and with the pound being fairly weak currently prices will be up.

I agree with the others normal 3di is the most bombproof sail material that I have come across, but if you aren't as worried about weight and want to reduce price ask them how the 3di nordac is holding up stretch wise now it has been out for a few seasons.

 

[savageseadog]

Make them an offer.

 

[flaming]

[Content removed]

When you're talking from the point of view of winning races, this is simply incorrect. Your dacron sail might have decent shape to start with, but to describe dacron as "holding its shape well" is no longer true when compared to the carbon sails now available.

Put it this way, if you say now that a 3DI race main will last 3-4 seasons for anything other than very high end programs, and you took the purchase cost of that sail and instead bought multiple dacron sails, you will run out of money replacing stretched Dacron mains well before the end of the 3DI's lifespan.

And why is your link a blog of a narrowboat couple?

 

[ashtead]

Out of curiousity how much would a 3DI be compared to say a vectran? Not in the 48 size bracket but the percentage difference for 3DI?

 

[Laser310]

Out of curiousity how much would a 3DI be compared to say a vectran? Not in the 48 size bracket but the percentage difference for 3DI?

about a year ago I got a quote from North for a mainsail for a somewhat sporty 30ft boat

a 3Di 360 Raw main was US $6600

An aramid laminate radial cut main was US $4850

 

[Zagato]

Sanders Sails maybe!?

 

[BabaYaga]

The OP is considering a North 3Di sail.
That is not a laminate or membrane sail and certainly not made from 'cloth'.
Whether or not it is worth its price I don't know, but a moulded composite sail is a totally different technology.
Maybe worth keeping in mind when making comparisons.
Boating Business | North Sails shifts from 3DL to 3Di production