Why a westerly?

[magicaltrout]

Hey folks,

I am a complete novice, so please excuse the foolish question.

I recently bought a small yacht after a few years of inland cruising on the broads on a motorboat. Anyway, I'm working through my day skipper course (slowly) and I've taken the yacht out up the Orwell and a couple of small offshore trips with an instructor or a friend to help me get some experience before I do anything too silly.

Anyway, when I was with the instructor, I said "I have a plan to take the boat up to Whitby next year" as that's where I'm from and its a bit of a random bucket list thing. He chuckled and said it should be fun, but amongst other pieces of advice he said "Make sure you sail up in a Westerly". I didn't think much of it at the time, but I never got around to following it up.

Why was that advice given? Like, clearly you don't want to beat into the wind for 24/36 hours, but why specifically a westerly? Or do I need to go back and ask him?

 

[Bru]

Beam reach on an offshore breeze. Champagne sailing!

A northerly-ish and its a beat into potentially nasty seas and the potential to not be able to get into Whitby anyway

A southerly and it's a run with a nasty following sea

An easterly and it's a lee shore

So a westerly is the ideal wind for the trip

Not that it cannot be done otherwise, it depends on how strong the breeze is and the capabilities of boat and crew

 

[Black Sheep]

Yes - ask him.
But I'd guess that you're right...
[ insert Bru's answer here - I must type faster ]

Unless of course he meant a Westerly yacht. A Longbow or a Pentland or a Centaur, for example. Maybe he doesn't trust Moodys or Beneteaus! Or maybe Bru is right...

 

[Bru]

Yes - ask him.
But I'd guess that you're right...
[ insert Bru's answer here - I must type faster ]

Unless of course he meant a Westerly yacht. A Longbow or a Pentland or a Centaur, for example. Maybe he doesn't trust Moodys or Beneteaus! Or maybe Bru is right...

I shall confess that i started typing a reply wondering why, albeit quite rightly , an instructor would so favour Westerly yachts before i twigged what was really meant!!!

 

[jimi]

I’d have a thought a southerly with a lifting keel in a westerly would be perfect

 

[magicaltrout]

My questions on forums are never explicit enough ?

Thanks @Bru for the correct answer and not the yacht brand answer

 

[STOL71]

Westerlies give you beam reach as would easterlies but some ports along the east coast up to Whitby may be be out of bounds in strong easterlies. Plus easterlies provides a nasty chop.

 

[magicaltrout]

Thanks @STOL71

All this stuff is mega useful. Day Skipper etc are useful for general stuff about navigation, tides, currents etc, but doesn't really give you a great deal of "real world" knowledge, which you don't get without just asking questions( or googling the right stuff ), or just getting out there. So I'm trying to do a bit of all of them to improve my general understanding of east coast navigation, sea states etc.

Half the problem is rectifying my lack of knowledge of the terms. For example, my guess with the "lee shore" and easterlies was accurate when I was discussing it with a friend the other day, but I had no idea of the term. So I'm here to learn!

Thanks

Tom

 

[johnalison]

It shouldn't be a question of knowledge, but imagination. A sailor from NewZealand should be able to look at a map, not even a chart, of Great Britain and see that a sail up the East Coast will be affected by the wind direction. A lot of sailing comfort and safety depends upon adopting a 'what if?' mentality. You need to learn to visualise the situation before entering harbour, or reefing, or picking up amooring, or a multitude of sailing tasks. Just as a golfer thinks through his forthcoming stroke, we have to do the same.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I’d have a thought a southerly with a lifting keel in a westerly would be perfect

The wrong boat coupled with the wrong winds can make you quite moody.

 

[shaunksb]

The wrong boat coupled with the wrong winds can make you quite moody.

Like a Northshore on a Leeshore?

_______________________

 

[jimi]

Like a Northshore on a Leeshore?

_______________________

Or a Sunfast in the pissin’ wet

 

[seivadnehpets]

Surely we all sail on the east coast because the land protects us from the strongest puffs!
But a gentle Easterly would be ok as long as it promises not to blow as you're entering port

 

[TLouth7]

...some ports along the east coast up to Whitby may be be out of bounds in strong easterlies.

Specifically there is only one safe port between Harwich and Whitby which is sure to be safe in any decent wind with even a bit of East in it, and that is Grimsby which is a long detour. Whitby itself would also not be a safe port in anything remotely North Easterly.

 

[magicaltrout]

Okay, let me ask another novice question because some of this I had fathomed, and some I have not, this is also why I'm not going anywhere fast or until I'm ready and had some more tutorage!

So the safe haven being Grimsby we had discussed so I was aware of that fact. But as someone new to sailing, I go up and down the Orwell and offshore around Harwich then duck back into the safety of the (wide) river.

So, from a boat handling perspective, if I'm arriving at Whitby(or literally any other port on the east coast) with an easterly, or north easterly, what negative effect does that have on the yacht? The council page about entry to Whitby harbour says "Dangerous sea conditions can occur at the harbour entrance during strong northwest to east onshore winds. Entry to Whitby Harbour for small craft is not recommended during this time." so I won't be trying to, but what would the sea state end up being?

Also if the weather was turning, there is potentially Scarborough a little short of the destination. Equally we're talking a 24-30hour ish run from Lowestoft, so I'd hope that the forecast doesn't change that much in that period (I appreciate its a forecast and the crew should prepare for it not being accurate and all eventualities etc.

I apologise for the novice questions, like I said, I'm here to learn!

 

[PaulRainbow]

Specifically there is only one safe port between Harwich and Whitby which is sure to be safe in any decent wind with even a bit of East in it, and that is Grimsby which is a long detour. Whitby itself would also not be a safe port in anything remotely North Easterly.

I disagree, although not strongly recommended, Wells can be entered in a fairly strong NE. I can't imaging Lowestoft being impossible either. Unless you are talking gale force winds, of course.

 

[magicaltrout]

And no, I'm not talking gale force winds! Just a leisurely-ish jaunt up the east coast. Thanks @PaulRainbow

Like I said at the start, this entire idea, outside of an excuse to finally go somewhere a little further afield is just a bucket list thing more than anything else, so there's no rush, no desire to get it done in any great speed, just get to a state where I've done enough local stuff to be confident, and then pick a weather window where it works with as high a degree of certainty as possible.

 

[PaulRainbow]

And no, I'm not talking gale force winds! Just a leisurely-ish jaunt up the east coast. Thanks @PaulRainbow

Like I said at the start, this entire idea, outside of an excuse to finally go somewhere a little further afield is just a bucket list thing more than anything else, so there's no rush, no desire to get it done in any great speed, just get to a state where I've done enough local stuff to be confident, and then pick a weather window where it works with as high a degree of certainty as possible.

If you want to begin exploring beyond the Orwell, might i suggest there are many other places to try before a trip to somewhere like Whitby, unless you have some special emotional reason for such a trip, no disrespect to Whitby

There are many places to visit if you turn right out of the Orwell, i won't name them as the list is long and you can see them all on your charts. Heading South from the Orwell is much easier than heading North, lots of places not too far apart and the tides are mostly more favourable. Heading North mostly means harbours that are best (or only) accessible at, or near to, high water, which tends to mean punching the tide.

 

[magicaltrout]

Oh no, sorry this certainly isn't going to be my first trip. The initial question just came from a discussion I was having, not any specific desire to set off tomorrow!

 

[TLouth7]

Scarborough and Whitby have a nice feature that one entrance faces South, and the other North (respectively), so often one or the other is accessible. The problem for many East coast ports is that the entrances are narrow, and at least in those two cases shallow, which results in any waves building up into dangerous surf.

I can't speak for Wells, but Lowestoft is narrow, has strong tides, and considerable sandbanks adjacent to the entrance. Entering in a strong onshore breeze without local knowledge would be stressful at the very least.

Pick a nice weekend and visit the Deben or Ore, and you will understand why an entrance might not be safe in an onshore wind. Both of these are much trickier than Whitby though, so don't be put off that goal.