What constitutes too rough?

willbank

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This is a question I’ve long been asking both myself and boating friends. And clearly it depends on your kit and your mood so what I suppose I’m fascinated by are scenarios: what are you willing to go out in on your boat.

So, from my perspective: I used to have a 6.5m RIB that I’ve taken out in pretty large 2m+ seas with 40 knot winds off Falmouth. That was definitely for the fun of the experience rather than trying to go anywhere and speed was down to a very ginger 10 knots max. 20-30 mins of play and return to base.

I’ve also come back down the coast in the same boat trying to average 20 knots but falling to 12-15 knots in heavy chop (1.5m+ crests, lots of whitecaps) with jarring impacts and basically pretty tiring and unpleasant but not at all unsafe.

I wanted to buy a larger boat that could handle the weather better and allow me to be out when the RIB would have been too tiring. So, I recently purchased a 8.5m XO Front Cabin which rides through the 0.75m sort of chop with much greater ease and is comfortable at 20 knots cruise while throwing water about liberally but you're sheltered and warm in the cabin.

But coming back last Friday morning into a head sea during that low there was 20-30 knot winds against an ebb tide, no swell but quite steep 1.5-2m, shortish duration chop between Falmouth and Helford and she was heaving and crashing along which was disappointing.

One of the issues is that a small RIB has relatively little moving around, flexing and banging - it’s very visceral, and hard on the human body, but you don’t feel it’s so hard on the actual boat itself.

However, with the cabin XO there’s more stuff to creak & groan, there are bits and pieces in lockers and cabins that can rattle and bounce. I suppose I was surprised by the feeling that I was subjecting her to much more pain that the RIB despite the fact that I was much less affected, personally. And frankly I really didn't feel I was giving her much of a workout.

So, anyway, long-winded illustrations but what sort of weather will you happily tackle longer journeys in (1 hour or so) and what sort of boat are you using to do it?

(An old jaunt on the RIB:
)
 

julians

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It's too rough when I get told to slow down.

Realistically about a f4 or 5 is the max ill choose to go out in. I've been caught out in worse and the boat handles worse fine (just slower), but it's not much fun.

But wind speed doesn't tell the whole story, there's wind direction and the wave frequency/length that determine whether its an easy f5 or a really tough f5.

Eg. Head on into a fairly rough sea is fine if I trim the bow down and use it to slice the waves, similarly in a following sea trim the bow up and surf the waves. It's when the waves are on the sides or front three quarters is when it's most uncomfy and wet.

This is in a windy 25. The boat doesn't really seem to care what the conditions are like.
 

BruceK

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Rough is a completely arbitrary term. I have been through some tall waves with a nicely spaced period and it's quite genteel and through a 1.5m short period confused chop that got exciting. Then there is beam on, following etc seas. Each boat will handle it differently. Last blow I was out in we had F8 gusting 9 on a windward shore but crossing Conwy Bay it is channelled up the Menai Strait and hits you a lot harder once halfway out. Sea wasn't big but it was a mess with a short 1.3-1.5m chop intersperced with much larger sets. A 42 foot sports cruiser was able to make it onto the plane and the period was close enough he didn't slam. On mine a 34 foot sports cruiser I was stuffing the bow in and getting green water over the decks at anything above 14 knts stopping me from planing. Yet at other times I have been able to plough in at greater speeds than him and he has had to pull back. Note the difference freeboard makes as does helm height and in the 3rd video as the chop period shortened I was able to punch through at planing speed. About the worst I have experienced is the chunky standing waves in Bardsey Sound when you mess up your tide time tables. One time I was caught out I was watching the deck flex upward nearly an inch and it popped a porthole trim out and a fridge as the hull flexed. That was exciting. Approaching the sound at 25knts and hitting an invisible wall that saw the boat drop to 12 knts while still making full revs.

Ignore dates. The following 3 videos are all taken the same day in the same seas.



 

BruceK

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Conwy Bay and Bardsey Sound entrance. This is about as bad as I'm prepared to go.

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Have you considered just going out in decent weather rather than just seeing how much punishment you and the boat can take? Try to remember it's supposed to be fun, not an endurance test. The sea will always dish up far more than you could ever handle so why fiddle around at your limits just to make a point to yourself, given that no-one else is listening?
 

jrudge

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It to rough when passengers look unhappy.

Remember a head sea or following sea makes a staggering difference. In a following sea a 5 can be pleasant. Into a short chop in a 3/4 can be uncomfortable.

I would not willingly go out In more than a 5. Docking becomes an issue even if the sea is ok.

It is not a contest but a leisure activity.
 

Rappey

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I once had a 14ft powered cat with single outboard , just like a speedboat inside.
There's only two things I've been on in rough seas that gave a smooth ride. This tiny cat was one of them.
It's hulls seemed to pierce the wave tops perfectly and you really didn't know if your were airborne or planing.
I do appreciate there are fun waves and I'm gonna die waves and rough seas for the little cat maybe a calm day for some.
A semi displacement is surely a better hull for heavier seas ?
 

ari

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The point so many people seem to miss is, it's too rough when you'd find it difficult to cope if the boat stopped working.

All this gung ho 'I've been out in a Force 7, green waves over the flybridge' machismo is wonderful, right up until the unseen crab pot line or cast off fishing net winds itself around the props, or the churned up fuel tank deposits all the diesel bug into the filters in one gloopy mess, and the boat stops. And then turns beam on...

That's when you learn that 'too rough' isn't about what you and the boat can take when all is well, it's about what you can take when all isn't well.

And the latter is FAR less than the former.
 

BruceK

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Have you considered just going out in decent weather rather than just seeing how much punishment you and the boat can take? Try to remember it's supposed to be fun, not an endurance test. The sea will always dish up far more than you could ever handle so why fiddle around at your limits just to make a point to yourself, given that no-one else is listening?

It's simple really. Speaking for myself. We boat near Anglesey. Being an island with a Strait you can find shelter in anything the weather throws at you and have a good time. There will be sections you will have to cross to get to the shelter but if I adopted a sunshine and fair weather attitude we'd seldom get out. We can have 4 seasons in a day and always find somewhere nice. Why waste a perfectly good weekend out because one patch of water will be a bit nasty? I'm no marina queen. My boat is not a second home, is no marina queen not having seen the inside of one most of it's life, and I use it as it's design intends and given it's now 28 years old and structurally no worse for wear I could argue I am looking after her just fine. It's got zero to do with endurance, hamming it up or anything, we are simply going out to enjoy our weekend.
 

[2068]

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Things have only gone a bit wrong a couple of times, once when a cruise in company turned into an F7 with green water removing my radar reflector, and another time when I deliberately tried to cross close to the stern of some sort of tugboat.

Turns out the tugboat wake had a drop of 2m+ into a hole.

Neither of these were fun.

The general rule is that boating should be fun - anything more than an F5 and you will find me on the sofa or in the Pub (when it re-opens).
 

BruceK

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The point so many people seem to miss is, it's too rough when you'd find it difficult to cope if the boat stopped working.

All this gung ho 'I've been out in a Force 7, green waves over the flybridge' machismo is wonderful, right up until the unseen crab pot line or cast off fishing net winds itself around the props, or the churned up fuel tank deposits all the diesel bug into the filters in one gloopy mess, and the boat stops. And then turns beam on...

That's when you learn that 'too rough' isn't about what you and the boat can take when all is well, it's about what you can take when all isn't well.

And the latter is FAR less than the former.


Oh ya. We carry a drogue and all sorts for that kind of eventuality. Listen, my ancient KAD42's are always giving some or other issue but never have we been bereft of power. Both engines are completely independent of each other sharing nothing in common. We just plod on one engine and many is the time we've had to fix something at sea. Usually impeller when the barnacles block the intakes.
 
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