Wales tightens up Lockdown from 25/04

NotBirdseye

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The new Wales rules for exercising during lockdown explained
New lockdown rules issued for people in Wales

I'm sure you'll be able to see the obvious implications for sailors in the near term. Specifically as it now forbids anything on the sea. This goes to show that on the current evidence the government (in particular the welsh one) doesn't think we have turned a corner and in fact things could get decidedly worse for us. One is left to wonder how much of this the Welsh Government can enforce but nevertheless.

Hopefully we'll be able to get out into the channel at some point this year but it's beginning to look like a lost season... well summer season at any rate!
 

38mess

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The new Wales rules for exercising during lockdown explained
New lockdown rules issued for people in Wales

I'm sure you'll be able to see the obvious implications for sailors in the near term. Specifically as it now forbids anything on the sea. This goes to show that on the current evidence the government (in particular the welsh one) doesn't think we have turned a corner and in fact things could get decidedly worse for us. One is left to wonder how much of this the Welsh Government can enforce but nevertheless.

Hopefully we'll be able to get out into the channel at some point this year but it's beginning to look like a lost season... well summer season at any rate!
I think he is getting stuff in before the bank holiday weekend again, basically so no second home owners can come or leave.
And cyclists were taking the p a bit so are allowed an hour or 10 miles. I don't think he can clamp down any more without risk of unrest. I do agree boating could be off limits until next year.
 

NotBirdseye

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The lockdown measure is working (it'd work better if people stopped cheating) but it is not the most effective tool in the box. Sadly we don't have any better tool. Testing, Containing and Tracing, which has a proven track record is both very expensive, very labour intensive and requires supplies... non of which the NHS has. (See lack of testing even though they're trying to ramp it up).

But yeah a good article highlighting the deficiencies in the strategy the government have chosen.

Not sure I agree with the analysis on whether the tests have been met mind you.
 
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Birdseye

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I wouldnt worry about what the welsh "government" says. They are a talking shop and they feel the need to say somethig in order to be relevant.
Discipline is already breaking down and thats in a country area. My guess is that in somewhere like Newport, people will continue to do just what they want, which might or might not include isolation. And the longer this goes on, the worse discipline will get.
What do you see in your area Lumi?
 

NotBirdseye

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I wouldnt worry about what the welsh "government" says. They are a talking shop and they feel the need to say somethig in order to be relevant.
Discipline is already breaking down and thats in a country area. My guess is that in somewhere like Newport, people will continue to do just what they want, which might or might not include isolation. And the longer this goes on, the worse discipline will get.
What do you see in your area Lumi?

In my area apart from the kids the vast majority of people are maintaining isolation in fact they may even be being a bit more cautious especially after another neighbour died from Covid-19. The police are also enforcing the new measures. So taking no notice is not a particular option.
 

oldmanofthehills

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Read that and it was the first really sensible article I have read on the subject.

The editor of The Critic seems to be a brexiteer and rightwing pundit. If he told me the sun would rise tomorrow I would take that with a pinch of salt. The right wing have always tended to value wealth over human life of others
 

savageseadog

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The editor of The Critic seems to be a brexiteer and rightwing pundit. If he told me the sun would rise tomorrow I would take that with a pinch of salt. The right wing have always tended to value wealth over human life of others
It's not about "wealth" it's about having a functioning economy that can pay for all those public servants (services)
 

NotBirdseye

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It's not about "wealth" it's about having a functioning economy that can pay for all those public servants (services)

Don't need a functioning economy nor wealth for that matter. Or rather a functioning economy is much less than you might believe, most of the uk economy is no built on things we need, it is built on things we want. Cut out the things we want and the UK economy is very small indeed and yet it can adequately provide for everyone. Provided public sector workers are fed and can feed their family most of them couldn't give two hoots. The government does not require the economy to function, never has. Tax is a construct to manage behavior and keep society functioning and growing, typically that means money but it's not something they ever need. Like a carpenter and a hammer, the carpenter doesn't need a hammer... it's just very useful. When the government talk about how much they are spending or about balancing the books... it's not because they'll run out of money (the government literally own the ability to make money), it's a matter of economic control, gives them an excuse to tax more to reduce productivity or increase it by investing.

However money matters to the rest of us because it creates the opportunity to trade easily.

There was a particular episode in a comedy program Black Books where someone (the female lead) was basically paid lots of money to do something not productive in any sense. It's an apt parody and while people might think that they're being useful they're often not. Think Telesales as a good example... English Literature teachers as another...
 
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Sneds

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So, by your reckoning, you ring a company looking for a price and delivery on something and the telesales person on the other end of the phone is not performing a useful function?
None taken
 

NotBirdseye

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So, by your reckoning, you ring a company looking for a price and delivery on something and the telesales person on the other end of the phone is not performing a useful function?
None taken
Not when that particular snippet is easily automated and often found faster and easier just by looking at the website. Coronavirus has shown us which parts of the economy we need and which parts we want... and telesales are a want not a need. Can you find the information elsewhere? Usually yes. Can you be bothered? No. << definition of want.

I don't consider something 'useful' if there is a more reliable and faster method of getting the information I want. (Without the attempt at upselling).
 

Birdseye

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The editor of The Critic seems to be a brexiteer and rightwing pundit. If he told me the sun would rise tomorrow I would take that with a pinch of salt. The right wing have always tended to value wealth over human life of others
I guess you must be a "public servant" or retired one. Those of us who have worked in the private sector know how easy it is to destroy business and leave people hurting from poverty. The coronavirus fight is inevitably a competition between two unpleasnt choices - the early deaths of at most 1% of the population against the misery caused to non public epmployees by economic disaster. There is no magic get out of jail card.
 

Sneds

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Not when that particular snippet is easily automated and often found faster and easier just by looking at the website. Coronavirus has shown us which parts of the economy we need and which parts we want... and telesales are a want not a need. Can you find the information elsewhere? Usually yes. Can you be bothered? No. << definition of want.

I don't consider something 'useful' if there is a more reliable and faster method of getting the information I want. (Without the attempt at upselling).

In a modern and professional B 2 B (business to business) trading environment that "snippet" may be quite complex and not obviously apparent therefore an informed and qualified "telesales" person may prevent an ill informed egotist spending £1,000's of his employers money on the wrong thing!

Believe me, it happens.

Regards upselling, what if you forgot or didn't realise that for your purchase to work you needed something else to go with it?
 

NotBirdseye

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I guess you must be a "public servant" or retired one. Those of us who have worked in the private sector know how easy it is to destroy business and leave people hurting from poverty. The coronavirus fight is inevitably a competition between two unpleasnt choices - the early deaths of at most 1% of the population against the misery caused to non public epmployees by economic disaster. There is no magic get out of jail card.

Actually we can pretty much pay our way out (short term about 2 years imo). Not good for global trade obviously but internally we can survive. It's a matter of how long that can be done for but the majority will be fine for quite some time. I'll happily concede it's not sustainable for a great deal of time but I think some underestimate how long it can be done for and we should be more than able to cover the Covid-19 epidemic. This isn't normal economic rules of course but at the moment they don't apply as the government are using their magic money tree to keep the necessities moving. People are still purchasing and the basic economy is ticking over.

Sneds, not saying it doesn't I'm saying fools and their money very easily parted. It's up to the employer to take responsibility for their staff and ensure they are doing things properly. If they can't read a catalogue correctly... why do they have authority to purchase? (I've worked most aspects of this argument both as 'telesales' (never again) and business purchaser (current)). If you forget that you need something else that's your responsibility (and you'll need to appropriately shop around for the best deal when you discover what it is you need) because upselling is not customer service it is pure sales. We don't need to be coddled here, we need to take some responsibility and ownership of our actions...
 

Sneds

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Consider one scenario though, you order X to go to a site 300 miles away, on a lorry equipped with a Hi-Ab (other cranes are available)
You arrange ten men to travel up the night before, stay in a hotel so they are ready and waiting for the delivery, and are keen to place X in position during the pre arranged nuclear(?), medical(?), manufacturing(?), rail(?) facility shut down only to realise no one ordered the fixing widget.
If only the telesales bloke had mentioned it?
 

NotBirdseye

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Tbf... none of my business purchases ever had a telesales bloke...so I've never been in quite that position. Every time we do forget something... we update the plan to ensure it doesn't happen next time and in the mean time we improvise. We usually have all of our own tools the thing we tend to forget to book is supporting man power transport! But that's easily remedied. Did have an incident where certain supporting manpower wasn't arranged but we updated the plan and it hasn't happened again... (or at least no one has complained yet).

The main problem we have isn't even at that point it's people actually saying what they need in the first place... getting that info out of them is like drawing blood from a stone...
 

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