Volvo TAMD 73/74 and 75 ECU - Cause for concern?

[Portofino]

There are several companies that make stand alone programmable ECU units.
For example Protech show a Sinoptic ECU connected to a D12 engine.
Volvo D12a

SCS Delta also have some flexible ECU with independent programmable outputs.
Delta ECU Range | scs-delta

Exactly.
Protech even do “ load testing “ and an image shows a MTU V 16 , could be marine or locomotive either way similar static loads , if loco imagine climbing an incline exactly the same as loaded boat or fouled prop/ hull .

I do not see any barriers for theses guys or negativity expressed on here ^^^ , a walk in the park .

They will fit wait for it guys ......da da EGT monitors + a zillion other test probs on the mule and of course it will be ragged about and a zillion spread sheets produced they will be able to change , map it’s as required alter values .

If you ask nicely request a permanent EGT monitoring.......just saying

The numbers in terms of global mkt stack up .As I have pointed out twice on here a after market solution by evolution emerges .
Another place to look would be China or Korea considering the vol of generators , earth movers and yes boats running diesels .

 

[kashurst]

.As I have pointed out twice on here a after market solution by evolution emerges

No it hasn't. The affected engines are NOT common rail diesel engines. So far no-one has produced an aftermarket ecu for modified edc controlled mechanical injection pumps.

 

[Portofino]

No it hasn't. The affected engines are NOT common rail diesel engines. So far no-one has produced an aftermarket ecu for modified edc controlled mechanical injection pumps.

Even easier as one signal lead to the pump instead of each injector unit .Makes no difference to theses guys .That’s just two examples remember .

Its not my problem .
I do not share your pessimistic outlook with this .Further more like the “ Hills engineers “ I see a business opportunity out of VPs lack of old parts inventory and field support .

Unlike BMW !
go to 12.0 and listen .........dream if it was VP

 

[Newbroom]

I think Volvo Paul knows all of the problems on these ECUs and has been involved with the Ranger which has the problem ECU and along with Imperial Ones contacts within the marine industry have all failed to come up with a substitution. I don't hold out a lot of hope unless pressure from interested bodies can persuade Volvo that doing nothing is not an alternative.
Why I am no expert the problem seems to lie in the fact though its a big market in boats of that era using the ECUs its only a small market outside of the this. I am quite concerned as being a owner with a boat fitted with TAMD75ECDs who is going to want to buy one with the kiss of death hanging over your head if a an ECU fails writing off a perfectly otherwise good engine.
I still think our best hope lies with Imperial Ones persistence with Volvo.

 

[vas]

No it hasn't. The affected engines are NOT common rail diesel engines. So far no-one has produced an aftermarket ecu for modified edc controlled mechanical injection pumps.

so is anyone aware of what does this ecu actually do?

instruct 2 linear actuators/step motors (or such) to move the governor and change gear
respective pots to know where the above are.
close a relay to engage/disengage the supercharger (if available)

check/read edc control shifters for position or whatever like warm-up, synch (if available), one lever operation, etc.
check rpm
check boost
for good measure check temps as well

is that all?
if so, I'm taking back what I've said as it should be reasonably simple

somehow I doubt it though!

V

 

[simonfraser]

As vas suggested it can’t have that many sensors / actuators
if the alternative is to scrap the engine i‘d consider a new chip that kept the risks lower and not produced as many HP

 

[Portofino]

Remember none CR will be a doddle , because with CR the injectors open , pulse up to 6 times sending timed amounts in during the firing , not necessarily each fire being the same .It’s continuously variable .
A none CR just opens once squirts shuts .Sure some wasted , some nasty emissions, under del lower power but at least it just the one signal , the one and only which the old smokies need .

Another thing ask them to bin the EDC throttles and revert back to Morse MT .
Another super reliable choice .
With EDC engines one cable goes to a pot which controls the pump ,( the new ECU in this case ) so lowers or increases the revs and another to a lever on the gear box .
It won’t move the gears until the revs drop .

You can stand all day in the cockpit and hose them down metaphorically speaking ,no LEDs , no pots to soak, no sound .
Just a nice clickerty click .

 

[volvopaul]

so is anyone aware of what does this ecu actually do?

instruct 2 linear actuators/step motors (or such) to move the governor and change gear
respective pots to know where the above are.
close a relay to engage/disengage the supercharger (if available)

check/read edc control shifters for position or whatever like warm-up, synch (if available), one lever operation, etc.
check rpm
check boost
for good measure check temps as well

is that all?
if so, I'm taking back what I've said as it should be reasonably simple

somehow I doubt it though!

V

As this ECU in question does power a variety of models namely from low power 44/300 the 3.6 litre engines both shaft and stern drive , powering injection pump and both shaft drive gearbox solenoid namely the HS63 and the linear actuator on a stern drive application.
The 73/74/74 and TAMD 122P EDC are all using the same design ECU .

Worldwide there must be a few hundred thousand units out there , as we both have had no real reply as to what the production problem is I can only guess that as the ecu must be made by several companies using several methods of production that somewhere along the line something is no longer available to make the final product .

Id guess that Nira automotive make the board , other companies make the alloy casing , Bosch make the sensor .
As no one is prepared to talk its a stale mate .

 

[petem]

As this ECU in question does power a variety of models namely from low power 44/300 the 3.6 litre engines both shaft and stern drive , powering injection pump and both shaft drive gearbox solenoid namely the HS63 and the linear actuator on a stern drive application.
The 73/74/74 and TAMD 122P EDC are all using the same design ECU .

Worldwide there must be a few hundred thousand units out there , as we both have had no real reply as to what the production problem is I can only guess that as the ecu must be made by several companies using several methods of production that somewhere along the line something is no longer available to make the final product .

Id guess that Nira automotive make the board , other companies make the alloy casing , Bosch make the sensor .
As no one is prepared to talk its a stale mate .

All this has been discussed ad infinitum on other threads. I even recall posting what appeared to be a programmable ECU that would cope with a electronically controlled injection pump and a Youtube video of someone in Australia who had got an engine running using Arduino's. etc.

It's all doable (note Porto, I'm not being negative) it just requires investment, expertise and test facilities.

If Volvo confirm that they will no longer make replacements then I'd be up for working with others to find a solution. It would certainly be a lot easier if Volvo shared the configuration / code.

 

[kashurst]

so is anyone aware of what does this ecu actually do?

instruct 2 linear actuators/step motors (or such) to move the governor and change gear
respective pots to know where the above are.
close a relay to engage/disengage the supercharger (if available)

check/read edc control shifters for position or whatever like warm-up, synch (if available), one lever operation, etc.
check rpm
check boost
for good measure check temps as well

is that all?
if so, I'm taking back what I've said as it should be reasonably simple

somehow I doubt it though!

V

Pretty much, the control of the injection pump is a bit different to common rail.

and an basic explanation of the position sensor and a partial circuit design which would work but I think will be sensitive to temperature. Bosch do publish their old design details.

Actually making the engine run and increase rpm etc is not hard. What is difficult is ascertaining the parameters for injection under varying loads. A designer could use the Volvo KAD/max power curve as the limit of injection at a given engine speed as a start. The trick to longevity is making sure the DIY ecu doesn't go beyond that envelope.
There is an air pressure sensor, speed sensor, fuel temp sensor, engine temp sensor to control the fuel/airmix and an injection advance motor - another pwm I think.

The gearbox controls are just solenoids.

I am guessing volvo must calculate the air mass input from the manifold pressure and engine rpm to limit black smoke and hold the injection pump back until rpm etc increase. The fuel temp sensor doesn't make a lot of difference so could be ignored. The timing advance could be treated as just linear advance with speed. But without sticking an engine on dynamometer it's tricky to know exactly how it is behaving.

All do-able - but anyone want to volunteer their engine(s)?
Plus would you buy a boat with a DIY fuel injection system?

 

[Mr Googler]

Maybe call these guys first.....see if they can clone the software out

Volvo Penta Marine Remapping D3 D4 D6 Tuning - West Wales Tuning

 

[Portofino]

Maybe call these guys first.....see if they can clone the software out

Volvo Penta Marine Remapping D3 D4 D6 Tuning - West Wales Tuning

Look like software jockeys only .

 

[Mr Googler]

I read somewhere they can clone. I’ve no idea how this works but I would think the first hurdle is getting something to talk to the ECU. If they can do that for VP later stuff......maybe earlier too. Just a thought anyway

 

[petem]

I read somewhere they can clone. I’ve no idea how this works but I would think the first hurdle is getting something to talk to the ECU. If they can do that for VP later stuff......maybe earlier too. Just a thought anyway

I spoke to a company near me who reverse engineers car chips. Due to the age of the VP ECU's they weren't particularly confident that they could read them but would give it a go.

 

[volvopaul]

I spoke to a company near me who reverse engineers car chips. Due to the age of the VP ECU's they weren't particularly confident that they could read them but would give it a go.

I had someone look at one years ago , he also owns a pair of kad 300 in his boat , he re maps performance cars on his own rolling road , there was no facility to read the map , I’d guess the system was designed like that .

 

[jakew009]

How much impact does this have on a boat with these engines then?

Or do they fail infrequently enough that no one really cares that they are not available?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

How much impact does this have on a boat with these engines then?

Or do they fail infrequently enough that no one really cares that they are not available?

If it's failed, the impact is that the affected engine is useless until repaired, amd without a spare that's never. Re-engining might cost 60-100K So, pretty serious.

 

[jakew009]

If it's failed, the impact is that the affected engine is useless until repaired, amd without a spare that's never. Re-engining might cost 60-100K So, pretty serious.

So would anyone currently buy a boat with these engines?

 

[DavidJ]

So would anyone currently buy a boat with these engines?

Good question
If you weren’t on this forum you would never know there was a problem.

 

[Alicatt]

Good question
If you weren’t on this forum you would never know there was a problem.

Due diligence