Unlimited Greek Transit Log British Flag VAT paid

[Besonders]

The current situation in and around Lefkada and Preveza regarding the Transit Log issue is as follows:
Most of the larger yards and the Marina at Lefkas have an agent who will deal with your Transit Log issues. The agent in Preveza will charge you 100 euros a pop no matter which type of transit log you require
The main issues arising are as follows and i can only quote from my own personal experiences here , there may be other issues that i have not encountered:
UK VAT paid boat with Uk issued T2L. UK national with Greek residency, boat on SSR Will only issue a 1 month Transit Log

UK VAT paid boat with Uk issued T2L. UK national with UK residency, boat on SSR Will only issue a 6 month Transit Log

UK VAT paid boat with UK issued TL2. Greek resident with boat on Part 1 ships register. Will only issue 18 month Transit Log

EU VAT paid boat with any UK resident or UK national with Greek reidency. Will issue Unlimited Transit Log provided boat is on Part 1 register

In addition to the documents mentioned in earlier posts on this thread, before they will issue the TL: private not charter yacht) Customs also require a valid current paid Tepai (Cruising Tax document) a current policy of insurance and what is described as a "Skippers Licence'. I presume RYA, ICC or equivalent qualification and finally your radio callsign.
As usual local authorities have taken it upon themselves to present additional requirements before issuing documents.
Given my own circumstances, I have decided not to apply at this time for a limited Transit Log of any length as i am concerned that once I accept any of these documents i will be required to leave the EU at some stage in the future when the transit log expires and to comply with the terms of the transit log in my UK Vat paid boat and thus invalidate my continuing EU goods status as defined under the withdrawal agreement. Its a total catch 22.

 

[Chris_Robb]

The current situation in and around Lefkada and Preveza regarding the Transit Log issue is as follows:
Most of the larger yards and the Marina at Lefkas have an agent who will deal with your Transit Log issues. The agent in Preveza will charge you 100 euros a pop no matter which type of transit log you require
The main issues arising are as follows and i can only quote from my own personal experiences here , there may be other issues that i have not encountered:
UK VAT paid boat with Uk issued T2L. UK national with Greek residency, boat on SSR Will only issue a 1 month Transit Log

UK VAT paid boat with Uk issued T2L. UK national with UK residency, boat on SSR Will only issue a 6 month Transit Log

UK VAT paid boat with UK issued TL2. Greek resident with boat on Part 1 ships register. Will only issue 18 month Transit Log

EU VAT paid boat with any UK resident or UK national with Greek reidency. Will issue Unlimited Transit Log provided boat is on Part 1 register

In addition to the documents mentioned in earlier posts on this thread, before they will issue the TL: private not charter yacht) Customs also require a valid current paid Tepai (Cruising Tax document) a current policy of insurance and what is described as a "Skippers Licence'. I presume RYA, ICC or equivalent qualification and finally your radio callsign.
As usual local authorities have taken it upon themselves to present additional requirements before issuing documents.
Given my own circumstances, I have decided not to apply at this time for a limited Transit Log of any length as i am concerned that once I accept any of these documents i will be required to leave the EU at some stage in the future when the transit log expires and to comply with the terms of the transit log in my UK Vat paid boat and thus invalidate my continuing EU goods status as defined under the withdrawal agreement. Its a total catch 22.

Besonder - thanks for that useful and detailed info. It seems that the rumours about not accepting an SSR relate to the unfamiliarity of the Customs (who have never dealt with UK Yachts before - accept mega yachts on Part 1 - hence they dont understand or recognise the part 3 SSR. I have now sent copies of Part 1 and part 3 (old type and new type with the Q code digital signature.

Next is to get the Port Authorities who follow up the TL to recognise that a UTL was excluded from reporting daily in the law amendment done in 2014. However not many people know that! So that is a very very good reason for not accepting an 18 month.
TL as you will need top report every night and ask to leave in the morning - Greece operates this very strictly in some ports and at others they cant be bothered but I have heard many who have been detained for 3 hours or so because they anchored out for a week!

May I use this summary as further evidence of Misdoing for the EU Commission Complaint. Ideally it would be ideal if you could get an afidavit from each of them signed as this is now concrete proof of Greece breaking the UCC.

 

[Chris_Robb]

The current situation in and around Lefkada and Preveza regarding the Transit Log issue is as follows:
Most of the larger yards and the Marina at Lefkas have an agent who will deal with your Transit Log issues. The agent in Preveza will charge you 100 euros a pop no matter which type of transit log you require
The main issues arising are as follows and i can only quote from my own personal experiences here , there may be other issues that i have not encountered:
UK VAT paid boat with Uk issued T2L. UK national with Greek residency, boat on SSR Will only issue a 1 month Transit Log

UK VAT paid boat with Uk issued T2L. UK national with UK residency, boat on SSR Will only issue a 6 month Transit Log

UK VAT paid boat with UK issued TL2. Greek resident with boat on Part 1 ships register. Will only issue 18 month Transit Log

EU VAT paid boat with any UK resident or UK national with Greek reidency. Will issue Unlimited Transit Log provided boat is on Part 1 register

In addition to the documents mentioned in earlier posts on this thread, before they will issue the TL: private not charter yacht) Customs also require a valid current paid Tepai (Cruising Tax document) a current policy of insurance and what is described as a "Skippers Licence'. I presume RYA, ICC or equivalent qualification and finally your radio callsign.
As usual local authorities have taken it upon themselves to present additional requirements before issuing documents.
Given my own circumstances, I have decided not to apply at this time for a limited Transit Log of any length as i am concerned that once I accept any of these documents i will be required to leave the EU at some stage in the future when the transit log expires and to comply with the terms of the transit log in my UK Vat paid boat and thus invalidate my continuing EU goods status as defined under the withdrawal agreement. Its a total catch 22.

Also Besonder - you mention the T2L on almost every line - Our customs say its not proof of vat being paid - why are we showing this if we have a proper invoice?

 

[Besonders]

Also Besonder - you mention the T2L on almost every line - Our customs say its not proof of vat being paid - why are we showing this if we have a proper invoice?

Chris, I personaly have a TL2 and that is why i constantly mentioned it, sorry for any confusion..and i was partly relaying my own experiences. Having today spoken with a fellow yachtie at Lefkas, the reason for only supplying a 6 month TL for yachts onn the SSR is apparently according to Greek Customs you cannot be outside the UK for longer than 6 months (183) days and be eligble for SSR, most of us know that the SSR states you have to be ordinarily resident in the UK for 183 days per annum to be eligble. They are using that to say they if you require a transit log for a longer period then you would be ineligble for the SSR
This does not take into account peoples differing circumstances. Please PM me if you want to discuss how to convert experiences into factual documents

 

[Chris_Robb]

Chris, I personaly have a TL2 and that is why i constantly mentioned it, sorry for any confusion..and i was partly relaying my own experiences. Having today spoken with a fellow yachtie at Lefkas, the reason for only supplying a 6 month TL for yachts onn the SSR is apparently according to Greek Customs you cannot be outside the UK for longer than 6 months (183) days and be eligble for SSR, most of us know that the SSR states you have to be ordinarily resident in the UK for 183 days per annum to be eligble. They are using that to say they if you require a transit log for a longer period then you would be ineligble for the SSR
This does not take into account peoples differing circumstances. Please PM me if you want to discuss how to convert experiences into factual documents

PM Sent

 

[Mistroma]

Just checking that my summary is correct for private yachts (not charter vessels):

Country where VAT Paid	UK T2L	Nationality	Residency	Registration	Transit log (Months)
UK	Yes	UK	Greece	SSR	1
UK	Yes	UK	UK	SSR	6
UK	Yes	??	Greece	Part 1	18
EU	N/A	UK	UK	Part 1	Unlimited
EU	N/A	UK	Greece	Part 1	Unlimited

I'm assuming that UK T2L column will really end up meaning "any valid proof of VAT payment" such as invoice.


I think that Chris has previously mentioned that proof of current TEPAI was likely in addition to proof of VAT payment and declaration that it had not been refunded.

It seems that Customs have also added:

• Current insurance policy
• Some form of "Skippers Licence'" e.g. ICC
• Radio callsign

At least these don't pose much of a problem for most people. At least Greek Customs are applying some logic, pity it is so seriously flawed.

 

[Besonders]

Just checking that my summary is correct for private yachts (not charter vessels):

Country where VAT Paid	UK T2L	Nationality	Residency	Registration	Transit log (Months)
UK	Yes	UK	Greece	SSR	1
UK	Yes	UK	UK	SSR	6
UK	Yes	??	Greece	Part 1	18
EU	N/A	UK	UK	Part 1	Unlimited
EU	N/A	UK	Greece	Part 1	Unlimited

I'm assuming that UK T2L column will really end up meaning "any valid proof of VAT payment" such as invoice.



I think that Chris has previously mentioned that proof of current TEPAI was likely in addition to proof of VAT payment and declaration that it had not been refunded.

It seems that Customs have also added:

• Current insurance policy
• Some form of "Skippers Licence'" e.g. ICC
• Radio callsign

At least these don't pose much of a problem for most people. At least Greek Customs are applying some logic, pity it is so seriously flawed.

Mistroma,
That chart adequately sums up my long winded explanation (Obviously only related to my personal experiences today at Preveza and my conversations with friends at Lefkada. )
I also agree regarding your observations t of the T2L just meaning any valid proof of VA T payment.

 

[Mistroma]

Chris, I personaly have a TL2 and that is why i constantly mentioned it, sorry for any confusion..and i was partly relaying my own experiences. Having today spoken with a fellow yachtie at Lefkas, the reason for only supplying a 6 month TL for yachts onn the SSR is apparently according to Greek Customs you cannot be outside the UK for longer than 6 months (183) days and be eligble for SSR, most of us know that the SSR states you have to be ordinarily resident in the UK for 183 days per annum to be eligble. They are using that to say they if you require a transit log for a longer period then you would be ineligble for the SSR
This does not take into account peoples differing circumstances. Please PM me if you want to discuss how to convert experiences into factual documents

Good point about SSR and it does provide a reason for the Greek officials treating Part 1 differently.

I think these things will pop up because the Transit Log is mixing up people and goods. The goods (i.e. boat) can remain in Greece when the people (owners, crew etc.) travel back and forth between UK and Greece. It would be possible for crew and owners to alternate between UK and Greece on a weekly basis and manage to retain SSR registration. Owners in a syndicate can each spend 90 days in Greece and 180 days in UK on a rolling basis. Most won't do that but it does show that it doesn't actually make sense to tie TL to the assumption that an owner can't spend more than 180 days outside UK.

It does look as if the TL may have been limited to 6 months for an SSR reg. vessel owned by a UK national, resident in UK. A bit arbitrary.

 

[ASW11]

Just checking that my summary is correct for private yachts (not charter vessels):

Country where VAT Paid	UK T2L	Nationality	Residency	Registration	Transit log (Months)
UK	Yes	UK	Greece	SSR	1
UK	Yes	UK	UK	SSR	6
UK	Yes	??	Greece	Part 1	18
EU	N/A	UK	UK	Part 1	Unlimited
EU	N/A	UK	Greece	Part 1	Unlimited

I'm assuming that UK T2L column will really end up meaning "any valid proof of VAT payment" such as invoice.



I think that Chris has previously mentioned that proof of current TEPAI was likely in addition to proof of VAT payment and declaration that it had not been refunded.

It seems that Customs have also added:

• Current insurance policy
• Some form of "Skippers Licence'" e.g. ICC
• Radio callsign

At least these don't pose much of a problem for most people. At least Greek Customs are applying some logic, pity it is so seriously flawed.

Good piece of work that. Thanks!

 

[Mistroma]

Good piece of work that. Thanks!

Thanks, I was just trying to make it clearer and think it is actually simpler that the table shown. I think that the UK T2L column should be removed completely. I assume that proof of VAT payment is required in all cases, whether paid in UK or EU if a Transit Log is required.

Is the Transit log required because the boat is UK flagged or the owner/crew are non-EU citizens? I think it is because the boat is UK flagged and that probably means that Nationality column could also be removed.

I wonder what TL I'd get, based on the table above if I used either my UK or Irish passports (UK flagged, UK VAT paid, UK resident, Part 1 registered).

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thanks, I was just trying to make it clearer and think it is actually simpler that the table shown. I think that the UK T2L column should be removed completely. I assume that proof of VAT payment is required in all cases, whether paid in UK or EU if a Transit Log is required.

Is the Transit log required because the boat is UK flagged or the owner/crew are non-EU citizens? I think it is because the boat is UK flagged and that probably means that Nationality column could also be removed.

I wonder what TL I'd get, based on the table above if I used either my UK or Irish passports (UK flagged, UK VAT paid, UK resident, Part 1 registered).

Navigating the tax was bad enough but this sound like another Greek nightmare Mike ,
I'm really thinking of change the flag if we start getting problem this year from countrys we visit.

 

[Mistroma]

Navigating the tax was bad enough but this sound like another Greek nightmare Mike ,
I'm really thinking of change the flag if we start getting problem this year from countrys we visit.

Hi Vic, I suspect Greece will be the only problem area for you. I could be wrong but if you aren't selling your boat then I'd bet nobody will ask about VAT (Possibly Croatia). If anyone does then you'd only need to prove VAT paid and in EU prior to 2021 or that you had been out of EU for at least a day in last 5 years.

Greece has just made it complicated by having a Transit Log and that forces everyone to hit the VAT problem immediately for almost the entire UK sailing population in Greece at the same time. Add in the fact that nobody understands what they are doing (or probably even trying to achieve) and you create lots of problems.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Thanks, I was just trying to make it clearer and think it is actually simpler that the table shown. I think that the UK T2L column should be removed completely. I assume that proof of VAT payment is required in all cases, whether paid in UK or EU if a Transit Log is required.

Is the Transit log required because the boat is UK flagged or the owner/crew are non-EU citizens? I think it is because the boat is UK flagged and that probably means that Nationality column could also be removed.

I wonder what TL I'd get, based on the table above if I used either my UK or Irish passports (UK flagged, UK VAT paid, UK resident, Part 1 registered).

The Transit log is required by all 3rd Country Yachts - the crew or ownership is irrelevant. Those that are EU Goods get an Unlimited TL - (In theory - but this is Greece) Those that are subject to Temporary Admission get a time limited TL.

Once the EU Commission sorts this out - all these issues will go away.
If the EU Commission fails to change the AADE attitude then I for one will be going away - to their favourite neighbouring country - Turkey!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Navigating the tax was bad enough but this sound like another Greek nightmare Mike ,
I'm really thinking of change the flag if we start getting problem this year from countrys we visit.

Changing the Flag? You have to be a complete idiot to go to the Polish Flag - You have to change your radia lisence, call sign, Find a good insurer as the UK Insurers cannot cover you.

SSR register has talked about a spike in deregistration from SSR - perhaps more people are doing this than we think. So do these guys realise that their insurance is defunct!

 

[Graham376]

Changing the Flag? You have to be a complete idiot to go to the Polish Flag - You have to change your radia lisence, call sign, Find a good insurer as the UK Insurers cannot cover you.

SSR register has talked about a spike in deregistration from SSR - perhaps more people are doing this than we think. So do these guys realise that their insurance is defunct!

Pants, Y Yacht (now Topsail) have European branches and underwriters so insuring shouldn't be a problem.

 

[grumpygit]

Am I missing something please, I keep seeing about filling in your "call sign" for the TL, is this to do with if you have a AIS fitted or something else?

 

[Chris_Robb]

Pants, Y Yacht (now Topsail) have European branches and underwriters so insuring shouldn't be a problem.

I dont particularly want to to have to go to court in another Jurisdiction - Pants is Germany.
I any case - why change flag if we dont need to - I am sure this present Greek thing is a storm in a teacup!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Am I missing something please, I keep seeing about filling in your "call sign" for the TL, is this to do with if you have a AIS fitted or something else?

Why not add it - it seems sensible info for their register.....

 

[grumpygit]

Why not add it - it seems sensible info for their register.....

Thanks for coming back to me Chris, This is only if you have one, what goes in the box if you don't have AIS?

 

[Mistroma]

Thanks for coming back to me Chris, This is only if you have one, what goes in the box if you don't have AIS?

They seem to be asking for your normal VHF call sign, nothing to do with an AIS number.