Unlimited Greek Transit Log British Flag VAT paid

[wwalsh]

Greek tax authority
01/03/2021

Subject: Providing instructions on the treatment of private yachts with the flag of the United Kingdom after the exit of the UK. from the EU
Ε.2050/2021 Παροχή οδηγιών σχετικά με την αντιμετώπιση ιδιωτικών σκαφών αναψυχής με σημαία Ηνωμένου Βασιλείου μετά την έξοδο του Η.Β. από την Ε.Ε.

For private yachts with UK flag for which the VAT tax liability in the EU.27 has been completed, by persons established in our country or in another member state and for which the provisions on temporary importation do not apply , the customs authorities may consider the assistance of the conditions for the application of the re-importation provisions, at the request of the above persons, which shall be submitted to the competent customs authority, to which shall be attached:
a) all the supporting evidence that proves the payment of the VAT by the same persons in the EU, as well as
b) statutory declaration (ypeythini dilosi) of law 1599/1986 that this tax has not been refunded either by our country or by another MS.

Upon the consideration of these conditions, without further formulations will apply Rule 1 of Paragraph 2 D 257/139 / 23.2.2000 AVC (378 / B) as is, and will be issued an indefinite Transit Log for free movement while retaining their flag.

 

[Mistroma]

Thanks I've just had a very quick look at this and one thing popped out that I had not thought about before:

In accordance with the instructions of the European Commission as formulated in a text posted on its official website entitled "2021-brexit-top-50-faq" in the form of questions and answers, yachts docked in an EU country. or sail in EU territorial waters at the end of the transitional period (31/12/2020), retain their EU character until the exit from it. In case of departure of vessels from EU territorial waters and re-entry after 31/12/2020, they are treated as third country vessels.

My boat is still in the EU and I should get an unlimited transit log. However, I'll need to leave EU waters in order to get to Italy by any route. This makes me wonder if my boat might lose EU VAT status as soon as I sail from Greece, even if Italy is my next destination. I hope that remaining inside the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) between Italy and Greece counts as remaining in EU waters, not just a 12 nm limit. There's a gap between 12nm limits but the EEZs meet and that solves the problem.

I must admit that I had not given that any thought. I suppose I'm technically leaving EU waters quite often when sailing around Greek islands if 12nm applies. I doubt anyone will bother as long as journeys start and end in Greece with Greece considering the whole area Greek anyway.

 

[wwalsh]

If you sail Greece - Italy it is a sailing within EU
The returned goods relief requires the original person who exported the yacht to return it to the eu within 3 years.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/2021-brexit-top-50-faq.pdf

49. I own a recreational boat, which I bought in France and keep in a UK port.
Will I need to follow any customs formalities after the end of the
transition period?
If your recreational boat was imported into the EU or manufactured in the EU, it
will be considered as having Union goods status. As of 1 January 2021, Union goods
in the customs territory of the UK have lost their Union status and have become UK
goods.
If, on 1 January 2021, your boat was located in an EU port or sails in EU territorial
waters, it keeps its Union status. However, if at that time your boat was located in
the UK, it is considered a third-country boat when arriving in the territorial waters
of the Union. This means that it will be treated as non-Union goods and will be
subject to the same customs controls as boats coming from a third country.
If your boat is brought back to the EU and fulfils the conditions to be considered as
a returned goods, then it can be declared to customs as such. Otherwise, it can be
declared for temporary admission as a non-Union goods. In both cases, the
declaration can be done by the sole act of crossing the frontier.

EU returned goods relief and temporary admission | Current Affairs | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association
In summary, in order to be entitled to relief from VAT and, if applicable, import duty on arrival in the customs territory of the European Union (commonly called returned goods relief – or RGR) a recreational craft must:

have had Union status when it was taken out of the EU; and
have been exported from the EU by the same person as is importing it; and
be in the same condition as when it was exported; and
return within 3 years of export.

 

[Irish Rover]

Greek tax authority
01/03/2021

Subject: Providing instructions on the treatment of private yachts with the flag of the United Kingdom after the exit of the UK. from the EU
Ε.2050/2021 Παροχή οδηγιών σχετικά με την αντιμετώπιση ιδιωτικών σκαφών αναψυχής με σημαία Ηνωμένου Βασιλείου μετά την έξοδο του Η.Β. από την Ε.Ε.

For private yachts with UK flag for which the VAT tax liability in the EU.27 has been completed, by persons established in our country or in another member state and for which the provisions on temporary importation do not apply , the customs authorities may consider the assistance of the conditions for the application of the re-importation provisions, at the request of the above persons, which shall be submitted to the competent customs authority, to which shall be attached:
a) all the supporting evidence that proves the payment of the VAT by the same persons in the EU, as well as
b) statutory declaration (ypeythini dilosi) of law 1599/1986 that this tax has not been refunded either by our country or by another MS.

Upon the consideration of these conditions, without further formulations will apply Rule 1 of Paragraph 2 D 257/139 / 23.2.2000 AVC (378 / B) as is, and will be issued an indefinite Transit Log for free movement while retaining their flag.

I appreciate this is an unofficial translation but I'm confused about the meaning of the section I've underlined in bold print above. What distinction is this making between owners of UK flagged boats who are resident in the EU and those who are not?

 

[sailaboutvic]

(all the supporting evidence that proves the payment of the VAT by the same persons in the EU)
This is the bit that's lost me .
Are they saying that vat had to been paid by the same owner it is own by now?
ie if the vat was paid by tom in 2016 and the boat sold to Mike in 2018 , is Mike now liable for vat again even if the boat was in the EU when Sold?
And if not , why is hmrc saying if a boat return to the UK which had changed hands in the time its been out of the UK but while still in the EU that vat is liable again .

 

[wwalsh]

The greek says member state persons which i understand to be EU member state. Therefore the directive seems to apply to persons established in greece or another EU country. Necessary for the CA to clarify.

 

[Chris_Robb]

The greek says member state persons which i understand to be EU member state. Therefore the directive seems to apply to persons established in greece or another EU country. Necessary for the CA to clarify.

William - I have been talking top Georgia Tounta for ages - I knew this was coming but not the content. I have just started to read the link , but from your initial clip - it appears to be only for those who have got residency in Greece, so that means most of us are still in the dark.

I am really hopping mad as I have prepared detailed documents on Vat and the TL all backed up with the advice from the EU Commission.

I am now going to read the rest of this. before I blow my lid with them.

 

[Cariadco]

William - I have been talking top Georgia Tounta for ages - I knew this was coming but not the content. I have just started to read the link , but from your initial clip - it appears to be only for those who have got residency in Greece, so that means most of us are still in the dark.

I am really hopping mad as I have prepared detailed documents on Vat and the TL all backed up with the advice from the EU Commission.

I am now going to read the rest of this. before I blow my lid with them.

Chris, just thinking but, will the type of Residency have any effect? OK, at the mo' there's the Beige one, which some boat owners have got, then the Blue 5 years and the Blue open ended residency which house owners tend to have, which will all be converted to the new Biometric Card. Dunno, but just asking.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Chris, just thinking but, will the type of Residency have any effect? OK, at the mo' there's the Beige one, which some boat owners have got, then the Blue 5 years and the Blue open ended residency which house owners tend to have, which will all be converted to the new Biometric Card. Dunno, but just asking.

I am reading it again and again - and its not easy to make sense of. Any of the formal residency issues will allow you to have a UTL, provided you have your Vat Invoice and swear an oath with a greek Solicitor - good money for them!!!

 

[comino]

Thank you Chris for confirming you are still negotiating. Just to say, I had an email newsletter from Gouvia Marina yesterday stating very clearly that it was a legal requirement for us (UK flagged boats) to obtain a TL as of 1st January 2021. It said if there were any queries to contact the marina office, which coincidentally I did last week. They replied with no personal help whatsoever other than sending a link to a port agent in Corfu Town. Presumably, that was their way of saying deal with them and not us.

 

[wwalsh]

I am reading it again and again - and its not easy to make sense of. Any of the formal residency issues will allow you to have a UTL, provided you have your Vat Invoice and swear an oath with a greek Solicitor - good money for them!!!

for statutory declaration (ypeythini dilosi)
https://www.dimosaspropyrgou.gr/media/entypa/ypeythyni_dilosi.pdf
it is only necessary to have someone to write it in greek and then take it to KEP for signature witnessing (appointment required). No solicitor is required.

The document we are discussing is not law it is instructions.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Guys, I cant post my commented document here -too big even as a PDF.

Long and short.
1. The document as written ONLY applies to those who are Established in Greece ior the EU. Established = Resident. Thats probably only a very very small percentage of UK yachts. I really dont think thats what the mean - so first letter is asking this question.
Note - you never send an email where you want an answer with multiple issues to Greece! You send Closed question - Y/N.

2. If this is indeed for us, then it is breaking the clear EU law. . They conflate flag, and ownership and residency with the Vat law - where goods have none of that. They just have the have Status - Paid - = in Free circulation, and LOCATION - in our case Greece.

Note - it is correct to say that for ALL yachts. when your leave UK or EU waters you immediately loose your Vat Status. The historical status is the state of free circulation at the point you left EU Waters. You then have a right to return within 3 years under the RGR 3 year exemption - which is not discretionary and applies to any goods that, at the moment they left EU waters, were at that point in Free circulation. So this is your absolute right. This happens to all good paid or not paid.

Returning after 3 years falls under Special Circumstances - and is at the discretion of the state you are entering. It is believed that if you are a resident, it will be given - but this is new territory, never before really used except in commercial movement - yachts on ships returning. So this needs working on.

 

[nortada]

Guys, I cant post my commented document here -too big even as a PDF.

Long and short.
1. The document as written ONLY applies to those who are Established in Greece ior the EU. Established = Resident. Thats probably only a very very small percentage of UK yachts. I really dont think thats what the mean - so first letter is asking this question.
Note - you never send an email where you want an answer with multiple issues to Greece! You send Closed question - Y/N.

2. If this is indeed for us, then it is breaking the clear EU law. . They conflate flag, and ownership and residency with the Vat law - where goods have none of that. They just have the have Status - Paid - = in Free circulation, and LOCATION - in our case Greece.

Note - it is correct to say that for ALL yachts. when your leave UK or EU waters you immediately loose your Vat Status. The historical status is the state of free circulation at the point you left EU Waters. You then have a right to return within 3 years under the RGR 3 year exemption - which is not discretionary and applies to any goods that, at the moment they left EU waters, were at that point in Free circulation. So this is your absolute right. This happens to all good paid or not paid.

Returning after 3 years falls under Special Circumstances - and is at the discretion of the state you are entering. It is believed that if you are a resident, it will be given - but this is new territory, never before really used except in commercial movement - yachts on ships returning. So this needs working on.

Thank you for the clarification. Even for those of us not in Greece - useful clarification.

Excellent message.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Deleted as not to drift this thread

 

[Farmerwilliam]

Hi Chris. I also have a UK FLAG. Boat in Corfu. It is UK Vat paid but I might struggle to find hard evidence of that. The boat arrived in Greece in 2017. Can I safely keep it on SSR and cruise Greek waters? I will get a Transit Log.
what happens if I visit ports within Greece? For example if we sail from Corfu to Paxos?
Or to Italy?

and will I need to leave Greek waters every 18 months?

so many questions...

will F

 

[Mistroma]

I took the same points as it didn't make sense unless the Greeks were muddling up things not actually related. It seemed likely that their proposals would put owners in Greece in a different VAT position from similar owners in France, Italy or Spain etc. I thought it likely that they would be breaking EU law.

My assumption was that proving EU VAT status would be the tricky bit but would eventually be OK in all EU countries. All you needed was something stating you were VAT paid in any EU country and proof you had not left EU. I didn't see it as a big issue as it would really only become important if I ever sold the boat in the EU.

Greece's Transit Log complicates matters as you then need immediate proof of VAT status. That was bad enough but now they seem to be throwing in residential status and other things.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Hi Chris. I also have a UK FLAG. Boat in Corfu. It is UK Vat paid but I might struggle to find hard evidence of that. The boat arrived in Greece in 2017. Can I safely keep it on SSR and cruise Greek waters? I will get a Transit Log.
what happens if I visit ports within Greece? For example if we sail from Corfu to Paxos?
Or to Italy?

and will I need to leave Greek waters every 18 months?

so many questions...

will F

Hi Will.
You will need evidence of VAT payment when you come to get the Unlimited Transit Document. But you never know, they may just assume all are paid and not bother to check - but dont bank on that.

In the worse case scenario you will be treated just as any other 3rd Country and get a n 18 month Transit log. The only effect in reality on you is that if you sell in the EU you may not get as much as with a proven Vat payment.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I took the same points as it didn't make sense unless the Greeks were muddling up things not actually related. It seemed likely that their proposals would put owners in Greece in a different VAT position from similar owners in France, Italy or Spain etc. I thought it likely that they would be breaking EU law.

My assumption was that proving EU VAT status would be the tricky bit but would eventually be OK in all EU countries. All you needed was something stating you were VAT paid in any EU country and proof you had not left EU. I didn't see it as a big issue as it would really only become important if I ever sold the boat in the EU.

Greece's Transit Log complicates matters as you then need immediate proof of VAT status. That was bad enough but now they seem to be throwing in residential status and other things.

Just forget the residential status bit - at the moment that documnet means nothing - as we do not have residence inm Greece or the EU it does not apply to us. Quite why they put it out like this, I will find out tomorrow. Its it is for us (ie a mistake) then there are some serious issues about Vat on re-entering Greece. We will be working to sort this out.

 

[Farmerwilliam]

Thanks very much Chris. My wife has a residency permit, but I do not. Could be hard to get the UTL.
W

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thanks very much Chris. My wife has a residency permit, but I do not. Could be hard to get the UTL.
W

As Chris said your biggest issue is when you come to sell the boat but then if you can't prove VAT was paid , Brexit or no Brexit you still would had the same problem ,
Other then that it going to mean leaving the EU (greece) every 18 months which isn't that big a problem as you have Croatia, Montenegro on your door step.
If it was me it be , I be more concern come the day of selling .