Travelling to Essex; Hertfordshire Police

[PaulRainbow]

The problem as I see it is classifying a boat as a holiday home and staying overnight. It
certainly is not a place of work like an oil rig or one's normal home. It is a recreational conveyance for pleasure surely.

What we don't want is to mess things up so we can't go sailing at all.

It's all a bit grey. The guidance specifically excludes holiday homes, second homes, camp sites and caravan parks, so our boats are obviously not one of those, as they allow sailing. As you say, we don't want to mess things up, but i don't think we'll be seeing any pontoon parties just yet, some common sense should stand us in good stead.

 

[bedouin]

It's all a bit grey. The guidance specifically excludes holiday homes, second homes, camp sites and caravan parks, so our boats are obviously not one of those, as they allow sailing. As you say, we don't want to mess things up, but i don't think we'll be seeing any pontoon parties just yet, some common sense should stand us in good stead.

Exactly - the guidance is not the same as regulations and a boat is not a second home. You are not allowed to go to a second home at all but you can go to the boat so pretending that the guidance not to go sleep in a second home automatically applies to boats is clearly not right.

As I've said in a previous post I believe they were going to say no staying out overnight but removed it following lobbying by groups who like to take their outdoor leisure at night. So it would certainly be allowed to go for an overnight sail.

 

[Lucy52]

I believe the anglers got night fishing agreed. A lot of fishing is done at night.
So, go out to your anchorage, put a rod up with float alarm, put a keep net over the side, tackle box in view and go down below for a break. Your fishing, right. Now you may be disturbed or not or even get your breakfast. No luck, not to worry, you can try another anchorage tomorrow, and so on.

 

[jon and michie]

So contact sports like football and rugby can commence from June different households can socialise and enter each homes.
But we can't stay overnight on our boats as in just your own family/couple???
Am I missing something here

 

[johnalison]

So contact sports like football and rugby can commence from June different households can socialise and enter each homes.
But we can't stay overnight on our boats as in just your own family/couple???
Am I missing something here

You can't enter people's homes. You can only meet them outside at social distance, and no hugging. Apparently, if no alternative is available, you can go in to use a lavatory but everything has to be cleaned and sterilised afterwards. I can't see this being widely observed, because so many people already struggle with the idea of lockdown, and I know one person who has had more than one visit from a relation living in London, for example.

 

[jon and michie]

Johnalison - you're correct - this is my Sunday morning rant - my point being that we can enjoy our boating but cannot stay overnight - yesterday I drove to my boat (225 miles) 5am start - got the boat cleaned and engine serviced had a shower and dinner on board then drove home and arrived at 23:30 and went straight to bed - as a risk assessment it would have been safer for me and my wife to stay on board and travel back home today but many families can meet up from tomorrow and contact sports etc but myself and my wife who haven't come into contact with anyone / the same as many boaters get penalised grrr

 

[Lucy52]

There has always been an exception for children of divided families. My daughters children have been to stay with their father on a weekly basis, collected and returned by his mum. Then her new friend is in the same situation, and I’ll say nothing about their relationship during lock down. Today they have moved into a new home together and the children will still visit their parents making three, or maybe four households mixing. lol Mostly quite legal of course.

I think the objection to staying overnight on your boat is the potential extra pressure on the shore-side resources, toilets, showers and fuel etc. and the increased chance of cross infection. There will need to be measures in place to protect, staff, live-aboard and visitors from infecting one another.

 

[johnalison]

Although I have been prevented from getting my boat into commission, it is very frustrating to see that vociferous sections of society, such as footballers have got themselves into a position where they are effectively exempt from restrictions, while the rest of us have to stew. For the time being, I hope that not too many sailors will ignore the current rules, because this will work against our interests if sailors are seen to be a rogue group and further lockdown procedures become necessary.

 

[jon and michie]

lucy52 - the showers and toilets at my marina there is about 8 cubicles with plenty of space and cleaned regularly - keypads myself and my wife use nitrile gloves which are binned after each use.
the marina office is cordened off and email telephone and vhf the prefered method - fuel if required has a set of instructions for the boater to follow - there is signs at the marina entrance for general public not to enter - Basically there is procedures in place - as for yesterday we didnt come into contact with any other household so it would not make a blind bit of difference waking up on our boat this morning and driving home in a less tired state than the night before.

johnalison - totally agree with the footballer's being able to play football and contact sports 4 players in my city have already been tested positive again its a money making exercise like been able to see a dentist yes it maybe medical but they make a ton of money compared to barbers/hairdressers the difference is the dentist and his/her assistant are going to be probing in your mouth where as a hairdresser/barber is only going to cut your hair using the same ppe as the dentist.
Then we've have school kids returning back to school - kids are kids and telling them not to go next to their pals every 5 minutes is going to be difficult.

jon

 

[Tomahawk]

There has always been an exception for children of divided families. My daughters children have been to stay with their father on a weekly basis, collected and returned by his mum. Then her new friend is in the same situation, and I’ll say nothing about their relationship during lock down. Today they have moved into a new home together and the children will still visit their parents making three, or maybe four households mixing. lol Mostly quite legal of course.

I think the objection to staying overnight on your boat is the potential extra pressure on the shore-side resources, toilets, showers and fuel etc. and the increased chance of cross infection. There will need to be measures in place to protect, staff, live-aboard and visitors from infecting one another.

If there was some sound evidence of actual risk..

How many fatalities and serious accidents are there solely involving people staying on board overnight a week during normal times?

100,000
10,000
1000
100
1
0.1

 

[Lucy52]

I don't disagree, just saying what I believe to be the reason why the government won't let you stay on board yet. The virus will do what it is going to do whatever we do anyway.

 

[Marmalade]

The RYA has decided to base it's latest recommendation on boats being equivalent to second homes. I can't see that in the guidance. An old friend (sailor) who works for the government is perplexed; as there's no basis for anyone being able to re-classify a boat as a second home. The government guidance explicitly states that sailing is allowed and (from the PM himself) we're encouraged to use common sense. If someone sails, anchors in a river, and returns the next day (assuming they're with members of their own household) and follows social distancing guidelines in and around their marina / sailing club / harbour... it's hard to see where the overnight portion adds risk. I do understand the advice with people staying on board in the marina; if being on board overnight means increased use of communal facilities.

 

[PaulRainbow]

The RYA has decided to base it's latest recommendation on boats being equivalent to second homes. I can't see that in the guidance. An old friend (sailor) who works for the government is perplexed; as there's no basis for anyone being able to re-classify a boat as a second home. The government guidance explicitly states that sailing is allowed and (from the PM himself) we're encouraged to use common sense. If someone sails, anchors in a river, and returns the next day (assuming they're with members of their own household) and follows social distancing guidelines in and around their marina / sailing club / harbour... it's hard to see where the overnight portion adds risk. I do understand the advice with people staying on board in the marina; if being on board overnight means increased use of communal facilities.

The latest guidance specifically excludes camp sites, caravan sites, second homes and holiday homes, yet allows us to go sailing or motor boating, so there is, IMO, a clear distinction.

Anyway, who are the RYA to determine what we can/cannot do, just another group to add to the list of insignificant people who want to jump on the band wagon of opinions.

If someone wants to spend a weekend sailing, the risks of contracting or spreading the virus must be less if the travelling too and from the boat, stops for fuel, touching gate keypads etc are kept to a minimum. Staying onboard for one night halves those activities at no added risk anywhere else.,

Of course, you could say you were spending the night onboard to make sure that your eyesight worked OK at sea first thing in the morning

Or hang a fishing rod off the back and say you're night fishing.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

Please be aware that the latest edition of the regulations which come into force on Monday created a specific offence of not being at home overnight (save for certain reasons)

The slightly better news is that there will be no restrictions on being away from home during the day.

 

[jon and michie]

Activities are of an unlimited time and distance travelled which came into effect on the last easing.

 

[Stork_III]

Please be aware that the latest edition of the regulations which come into force on Monday created a specific offence of not being at home overnight (save for certain reasons)

The slightly better news is that there will be no restrictions on being away from home during the day.

Corrected that for you, all daytime restrictions are removed, but being away overnight now specifically illegal!!!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/558/pdfs/uksi_20200558_en.pdf

 

[PaulRainbow]

No problemo.

P is unable to return to the place where P lives, because— (i) it is not safe for P to live there, (ii) P may not lawfully travel there, or is required by law to stay in another place, or (iii) the place where P is living is not available to P for any other reason.

P has been sailing for the day and after anchoring for a short time has consumed a large quantity of Vodka (other flavours of alcohol available), it would therefore be unlawful to drive

 

[jon and michie]

The thing is the media hasn't helped scaremongering in the beginning.
And with seeing people on the beaches in the droves and the authorities doing nothing creates frustration within our community.
That said who can blame the people on the beaches when the people at the top are breaking the rules and it's quite natural to rebel which is what will happen in the end anyway.
The only reason as I have said before certain establishments can trade is not for the peoples benefits its the government's in the form of cash.

 

[shaunksb]

No problemo.



P has been sailing for the day and after anchoring for a short time has consumed a large quantity of Vodka (other flavours of alcohol available), it would therefore be unlawful to drive

But not unlawful to catch the train...

_________________________

 

[jon and michie]

shaunksb - the distance from my house to the marina - by the time I have caught a train home on an evening would require me to overnight in a train station. (please note I am not being awkward or pedantic)

Can someone share where it states Boat in these regulations because all I have seen is that "you cannot stay in holiday home, 2nd home ,overnight in a camper van or stay in a caravan"
and I totally agree with PaulRainbow to use common sense.
Regarding the RYA it maybe their recommendations but that's all it is - an opinion

but its ok for football players each team of 11 players excluding substitutes, medic, coach and manager (all x2 for both teams) to interact --- Commrad Corbyn must be thinking he's won after all