Total newbie - Go easy on me!

[tatali0n]

Looks like you picked a lovely day for it, congratulations on making it out of the river. If it's any consolation, my first time in Bristol lock I found to my embarassment my lines were only half the length they needed to be. The locks in Portishead, Cardiff Barrage and Swansea have pontoons you moor against that rise and fall with the water. A much more civilised affair, and you don't have to rub your fenders up and down a slimy lock wall!

Baffled as to why your depth sounder mistold you 2' outside Avonmouth. I can well imagine the panic, but it looked like you had lots of tide under you and I'm guessing it was rising, so there shouldn't have been anything solid out there. The level of silt in the estuary does make them misread sometimes. We grounded in the Hole outside Portishead Lock a few weeks ago despite ours telling us we should've still had 2 meters under the keel. I tend to treat the thing as a rough guide only and ALWAYS err on the side of caution whenever I can.

 

[vodzurk]

Looks like you picked a lovely day for it, congratulations on making it out of the river. If it's any consolation, my first time in Bristol lock I found to my embarassment my lines were only half the length they needed to be. The locks in Portishead, Cardiff Barrage and Swansea have pontoons you moor against that rise and fall with the water. A much more civilised affair, and you don't have to rub your fenders up and down a slimy lock wall!

Baffled as to why your depth sounder mistold you 2' outside Avonmouth. I can well imagine the panic, but it looked like you had lots of tide under you and I'm guessing it was rising, so there shouldn't have been anything solid out there. The level of silt in the estuary does make them misread sometimes. We grounded in the Hole outside Portishead Lock a few weeks ago despite ours telling us we should've still had 2 meters under the keel. I tend to treat the thing as a rough guide only and ALWAYS err on the side of caution whenever I can.

Thanks!

The day certainly was fantastic aside from the pretty strong wind making unberthing and rafting up at the end of the day rather stressful... for the return at least, we got it right on the 5th attempt, but better safe than knackered boat.

As for the rope for locking, yeah, I've something like 40m of throw lines that I was meant to slice up and have ready for locking. Thankfully there was a nice big booze cruizer that we grabbed on to .

Thanks for watching the video! I hope it got a smile or two

The 2' of water was really freaky... the video doesn't show it too well... but the water noticeably changed to us both visibly and side-to-side and digging in (whatever it's called)... and we could see that everywhere else was NOT like that around it. We ended up putting it down to either our own stupidity (possibly hitting our own wake), or a submerged object (the navionics had a C in a diamond RIGHT AT THAT SPOT... which when I click on it, shows what appears to be the water speed history... so wondering if there's a submerged speed indicator or something). Either way, it had us properly ruffled up!

Link to the navionics thing with the C-Diamond in it... Link

 

[bitbaltic]

The 2' of water was really freaky... We ended up putting it down to possibly hitting our own wake, or a submerged object (the navionics had a C in a diamond RIGHT AT THAT SPOT... which when I click on it, shows what appears to be the water speed history... so wondering if there's a submerged speed indicator or something). Either way, it had us properly ruffled up!

Link to the navionics thing with the C-Diamond in it... Link

The "C" thing is a tidal diamond. Wikepedia here. It is a point at which the tidal flow has been accurately measured (probably very long ago)- it is not currently being measured and there is no seabed apparatus there. There will be tidal diamonds all over your chart (there is one off Clevedon for instance). They do not affect depth or mean an obstruction should be expected.

Your mis-reading depth sensor is a result of either running over the aerated, foaming crest of a wave, or your aerated, foaming wake. The sensor will under-read if there is air in the water as the acoustic 'ping' bounces straight back off the bubbles, giving an incredibly shallow value. My depth alarm goes off for the same reason every time I lock in to Cardiff where the outflow in the lock is very turbulent.

As a general point, would advise you change your depth sounder reading from feet to metres. All charts are now in metres and it will help you navigate by being able to reduce depth to datum, giving confidence because you can compare the depth you see to the chart accurately, working as an extra way of checking position. It would also be as well to find out how accurate your depth reading is by dropping a leadline (bought, borrowed or easily made) over the side and adjusting until the readout is the same as the lead. S/H boats can contain all sorts of incredible settings in the electronics.

 

[tatali0n]

It would also be as well to find out how accurate your depth reading is by dropping a leadline (bought, borrowed or easily made) over the side and adjusting until the readout is the same as the lead

Hah. Funny enough, I've never thought of doing that. Mind you, till now Calstar has never had a big freshwater lake without 7kts of tide to bob about in and check these things. I'm going to enjoy our new home-base.

the water noticeably changed to us both visibly and side-to-side and digging in (whatever it's called)... and we could see that everywhere else was NOT like that around it. We ended up putting it down to either our own stupidity (possibly hitting our own wake) <SNIP> Either way, it had us properly ruffled up!

You'll discover the water around these parts does that a lot. You push a pile of wet stuff at 6kts over a bump in the sea floor 10m down and it'll do all sorts of odd, unexpected things on the surface, rolling and boiling without explanation. It's one of the charms of our local water

That said, don't ever take anything for granted. If you ever get ruffled, ease off on the throttle and make sure everything's okay. Better safe than sorry. I'm guessing Huw's right though, and it was aeration in the water, almost certainly caused by your crossing your wake, amplified by whatever was happening underneath at that particular moment in time.

It's really quite fascinating, the effect the contours and obstructions of the sea bed has on our tide, and the timings. Wait till you make it up under the bridges, or head down past Clevedon.

 

[tatali0n]

The day certainly was fantastic aside from the pretty strong wind making unberthing and rafting up at the end of the day rather stressful... for the return at least, we got it right on the 5th attempt, but better safe than knackered boat.

I did wonder about the wind. Didn't pay much attention to it for Saturday, had a gig that night so sailing out there really wasn't an option (house rule, don't go out there unless it doesn't actually matter if I don't make it back when I'm expecting to) but the forecast for Sunday had been scaring the wits out of me all week as we were planning to move the boat down to Cardiff.

In the end, it didn't turn out too bad, but it was still a little on the frisky side

scapegoatsanon.blogspot.co.uk/.../calstar-rebased

But blue skies. How I've missed blue skies. So very glad we've made it back to spring again!

 

[bitbaltic]

Hah. Funny enough, I've never thought of doing that. Mind you, till now Calstar has never had a big freshwater lake without 7kts of tide to bob about in and check these things. I'm going to enjoy our new home-base.

I only did it because I wanted to have cunliffe-esque calibration to the waterline, not beneath the keel you can do it at the marina berth of course. What Cardiff Bay is very good for is calibrating a wind instrument by doing that drive-a-measured-Nm thing, or whatever it is, or is it calibrating logs?, and swinging the compass. Might finally try that before departing for Milford....

 

[Sneds]

Congrats on your first "channel dash"
Overnite in Portishead next?
Glad you're enjoying Gorjus and all the prep work you have done, and are no doubt still doing, will stand you in good sted
You will find,yourself doing things intuitively
Great vid by the way, enjoyed it

 

[Bloater]

I watched your video and it reminded me that it is always your first boat that rewards the most fun, as you get more experience and bigger boats that fun per pound unfortunately decreases.

Just one observation - there is a speed limit on the Avon. At times on the video you are clearly exceeding this.

I wouldn't have expected to to be able to lock out and return to Bristol on the same tide as you apparently did.

 

[tatali0n]

I wouldn't have expected to to be able to lock out and return to Bristol on the same tide as you apparently did.

The speed limit in the river below the docks is 9kts SOG. The first lock out of the docks is just shy of 3 hours before HW, the distance from there to the river mouth a little shy of 6nm. The lock operates until HW, or a little after if the tide is more than 9.6m and they put it into freeflow.

Doesn't seem improbable that you could lock out on the first locking, get all the way down to the mouth of the river, play around outside for a short while and then get back in time to lock back in on the same tide, without breaking any speed limits.

 

[vodzurk]

The "C" thing is a tidal diamond. Wikepedia here. It is a point at which the tidal flow has been accurately measured (probably very long ago)- it is not currently being measured and there is no seabed apparatus there. There will be tidal diamonds all over your chart (there is one off Clevedon for instance). They do not affect depth or mean an obstruction should be expected.

Your mis-reading depth sensor is a result of either running over the aerated, foaming crest of a wave, or your aerated, foaming wake. The sensor will under-read if there is air in the water as the acoustic 'ping' bounces straight back off the bubbles, giving an incredibly shallow value. My depth alarm goes off for the same reason every time I lock in to Cardiff where the outflow in the lock is very turbulent.

As a general point, would advise you change your depth sounder reading from feet to metres. All charts are now in metres and it will help you navigate by being able to reduce depth to datum, giving confidence because you can compare the depth you see to the chart accurately, working as an extra way of checking position. It would also be as well to find out how accurate your depth reading is by dropping a leadline (bought, borrowed or easily made) over the side and adjusting until the readout is the same as the lead. S/H boats can contain all sorts of incredible settings in the electronics.

Thanks for the Tidal Diamond info .

And yes, I do believe you to be right about the aerateion/foaming affecting the sonar. Good info to know. Though like tatali0n says, I'll also not just take it for granted, but rather assume the worst and drop speed immediately. Will also sort a leadline to run some harbour tests of the sensor accuracy.

Funny you mention about keeping it in meters... it was only just before departure that I flipped it to feet... can't remember why... though think you're right... keep it all one and the same. Will put back to metres .

You'll discover the water around these parts does that a lot. You push a pile of wet stuff at 6kts over a bump in the sea floor 10m down and it'll do all sorts of odd, unexpected things on the surface, rolling and boiling without explanation. It's one of the charms of our local water

That said, don't ever take anything for granted. If you ever get ruffled, ease off on the throttle and make sure everything's okay. Better safe than sorry. I'm guessing Huw's right though, and it was aeration in the water, almost certainly caused by your crossing your wake, amplified by whatever was happening underneath at that particular moment in time.

It's really quite fascinating, the effect the contours and obstructions of the sea bed has on our tide, and the timings. Wait till you make it up under the bridges, or head down past Clevedon.

Ah, ok, good to know that the water can do "rolling" and "boiling" in localised spots without any obvious reason... it ruffled us because we didn't know that. We were just "WTF, why is the water mental right at THIS spot, but not elsewhere!?!? There's something we don't know or understand here, get the hell away from it!". Oddly, easing off in the middle of it only caused us more concern as the side-to-side motion got us concerned... we don't yet know what sideways rolling motion our little (6.5m) boat is ok with... though to be honest, it would probably be laughable to anybody else. To us though, everything was thrown all over the place at the helm! (gonna look for a clamp for the tablet [navionics rocks!] as a result, surprised it didn't smash with how hard it flew off into the cabin below).

I dont think we'll be going up-river to the bridges this year. But what's the deal with the water being strange past Clevedon? We might be heading that way at some point over summer.

I did wonder about the wind. Didn't pay much attention to it for Saturday, had a gig that night so sailing out there really wasn't an option (house rule, don't go out there unless it doesn't actually matter if I don't make it back when I'm expecting to) but the forecast for Sunday had been scaring the wits out of me all week as we were planning to move the boat down to Cardiff.

In the end, it didn't turn out too bad, but it was still a little on the frisky side

scapegoatsanon.blogspot.co.uk/.../calstar-rebased

But blue skies. How I've missed blue skies. So very glad we've made it back to spring again!

I think the wind looks to have been about the same for Sat+Sunday.... https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/uk/bristol/historic puts it at 20 mph both days. We didn't know that it was bad in any way... there were other booze-cruisers going out and a larger mobo, so we leaned on that being the final say for being ok. (We did check WindyTV before leaving home (LOVE THAT SITE, could stare at it all day!).

Congrats on your first "channel dash"
Overnite in Portishead next?
Glad you're enjoying Gorjus and all the prep work you have done, and are no doubt still doing, will stand you in good sted
You will find,yourself doing things intuitively
Great vid by the way, enjoyed it

That's pretty much our plan. The cabin side-windows are out at the moment though, awaiting replacement. Once they're in and the electrics are completed, we'll spend a night in Bristol on it (in case it's hell and we wanna go home)... then try the same in Portishead, prior to moving it there.

Glad you enjoyed the vid... was more fun than I thought it'd be to do the editing . Not bad recording either for a £23 (inc delivery and attachments) GoPro knockoff!

I watched your video and it reminded me that it is always your first boat that rewards the most fun, as you get more experience and bigger boats that fun per pound unfortunately decreases.

Just one observation - there is a speed limit on the Avon. At times on the video you are clearly exceeding this.

I wouldn't have expected to to be able to lock out and return to Bristol on the same tide as you apparently did.

I suspect you're right... the first few times out will be amazing... then "normality" will kick in, whereby it'll just be a wonderful hobby (hopefully). Am hoping that by the end of this summer we'll be fully into the swing of it, and have visited Portishead, Cardiff, Swansea, Watchet and possibly Ilfracombe and Steep/Flat holm (anchoring overnight seems terrifying at the moment! We don't have a clue about drying out either, the hull being pointy n'all, but that's a question for another day ).

As tatali0n pointed out, the speed limit for a boat like ours, with draught less than 2 metres is 9 knots over the ground (Search for "speed" on this link: Bristol Council Harbour stuff). It might have appeared we were going faster in the video as we were punching the tide, but I can assure you we were sticking pretty close to a smidge over 10mph according to our GPS plotter. I don't know how fast the tide comes in, but it probably looks like we're doing 5mph+ more than we actually were. We also slowed down past Pill and other inlets, so that our wake was mostly dissipated by the time it touched any other moored boats.

That same Council website also explains the out/in lockings... we were on the first lock out, and third lock in... 2hrs35mins apart. Heck, a slow booze cruiser and tour-bus- boat made it out and back in that time .

Also, there were 2 ribs out with us, that we thought were harbour-master related (we only found out in the lock-in that they were Bristol Cruising Club), so actually thought the whole flotilla was under observation anyhoos!

But yeah, hand over heart, did not speed at any point... I had a wife besides me who complained plenty enough about 10.3 mph!

 

[vodzurk]

I watched your video and it reminded me that it is always your first boat that rewards the most fun, as you get more experience and bigger boats that fun per pound unfortunately decreases.

Just one observation - there is a speed limit on the Avon. At times on the video you are clearly exceeding this.

I wouldn't have expected to to be able to lock out and return to Bristol on the same tide as you apparently did.

Oh, also, if the inclination to believe we were speeding is from our Navionics course's max speed (http://webapp.navionics.com/maps/#show/kml/https://social-sharing.navionics.io/upload/1490468894568/1490468894568.kml)... I forgot to turn it off for the drive home (can see on the chart, it goes over land), so it's showing a max speed of 32mph (quite good for Bristol!)

 

[tatali0n]

I dont think we'll be going up-river to the bridges this year. But what's the deal with the water being strange past Clevedon? We might be heading that way at some point over summer.

There are a few places I've noticed the water gets especially, well, curly, particularly if it's wind over tide. Under and around the Second Severn Crossing, between Portishead and Battery Point, and off Clevedon. All of them have some sort of funnelling and compression in the underwater topography. It still amazes me how dramatic and unpredictable an effect a seabed 10m below can have on the surface of the water moving over it.

But as long as you're sensible, and as long as the conditions are relatively benign, then none of it is anything you really need to worry about in a well-founded boat.

I wouldn't be too intimidated by going up under the bridges. Not so practical if you're sailing out of Bristol as the lock constraints don't give you much time out in the Channel if you want to be out and back on the same tide. But once you move to Portishead, it's a different matter.

Portishead lock operates 4 hours either side of high water on neaps and 3 hours either side on springs. Around these parts, HW neaps are usually around midday / midnight, whereas high water springs are typically early morning / early evening.

So day sailing from Portishead, if it's springs, we'd lock out on the falling tide, head down channel the tide turns then head back for the first lock back in, typically about six hours out, maybe a little more; typically down to Cardiff for a pint if we left early on the tide or Sand Bay just for the sailing if we left out departure till the last lock, but on a falling tide, so you need to keep an eye out for mud and sandbanks.

For a neap tide however, we'd lock out any time before HW, head up channel till the tide turned and then head back again. A much shorter day, if that's what we wanted. Plus you're sailing on a rising tide, so less to worry about in terms of mudbanks and rocks and the like as there's typically plenty of water over everything and everything starts to calm down for about an hour either side of HW.

I believe there's even a riverside pub to have lunch at if you make it up the Wye to Cheapstow, although we never did.

 

[bitbaltic]

But what's the deal with the water being strange past Clevedon? We might be heading that way at some point over summer.

I have never had a worse hour or so on a boat than I did the time I motored east into a F5/6 Easterly with the flood tide off Clevedon. https://sailingkarisma.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/shock-and-awe-in-avonmouth/

The tide is funneled by the narrow channel between Battery Point and Clevedon. In strong winds, it can chop up into a fearsome race if the tide is going in the opposite direction to the wind (usually it chops up with a SW wind on the ebb, but the time we got coaught in it it was the opposite arrangement). It is not something to be avoided, because you cannot get west without going through the area, but to be thought about in advance (the time I was caught out we got ?26kn over the deck when we were expecting 10 as forecast) Don't go into it in strong wind over tide conditions while you are learning.

A note on speeds. Most people quote boat speeds in knots (=nautical miles an hour) again for navigational reasons - if your electronics fail but you have sailed north at 10kn for an hour, you know your position is going to be exactly 10 nautical miles north of the point at which you started (assuming no tide). It is also used in getting an idea of wind speeds which are also going to be quoted in kn for most maritime sources (e.g. you experience a 20kn westerly wind when sailing due west from Avonmouth at 10kn; this allows you to work out the true wind speed as being 10kn- and you are OK to go into the Clevedon race as it will not be cutting up in 10kn of wind, although 20kn will be a different matter). Miles per hour does not really mean anything at sea, to other sailors, and does not really relate to basic navigation with a paper chart. It might be worth buying a small scale chart of the BC and a book on basic navigation- just in case the ipad does actually go overboard......

 

[Sneds]

All good advice and some interest reading
We came back to Portishead from Cardiff on Saturday evening, f4/f5 NE and the tide ebbing for the first part of the trip, took us 2 & 1/5 hours as the sea state was horrible, down to displacement speed until the last 20 minutes in a 36 ft Flybridge
Burying the nose and taking water over the fly was not very pleasant.
What I meant to say was going out and back from Bristol, within the speed limit is easily doable, known in Bristol as a Chanell Dash!
Even the trip boats and ferrys manage it!

 

[Lioness]

Sneds, had a similar experience on the same trip in our 33ft sports cruiser recently and found running her back up to the slowest planing speed but with both tabs and drives full down made the ride drier and more comfortable as it stopped the bow stuffing into every wave. Might/does that work on yours?

 

[Sneds]

certainly give it a go

 

[RobEllis999]

Any more updates?

 

[vodzurk]

Any more updates?

Unfortunately, not a lot currently.

We intended to do another channel dash last Saturday, but the wind in harbour put us off... we were concerned that getting back into our berth might be tough. Sunday weather was good, but we couldn't make it.

The weekend before that though, we finally spent or first night aboard. Only in our berth, but still felt like a big step. Neither of us realised just how loud water lapping the side is... reeeeaalllly loud! Managed to get some sleep though and we're both happy about it which bodes well .

This weekend the tide times are a killer... We're not great at early mornings, and we'd have to be up at something like 5am. Was hoping to do some "parking" practice today, but this dumbass has a delivery arriving at am unknown time.

One question I have though (well, actually, I've loads, but the one really bothering me currently)... In our berth, to our right is a large barge. Pulling out, we can't see to the right. This is fine-ish for ferries and large boats. But last Saturday the area was crawling with surf-boats. The wind was gusting over 20mph, amd those guys were shooting around easily in excess of 15mph. Every couple of minutes, one or the other shot past our bow, from our blind side, with only a couple of meters gap. Neither me or wifey can figure out how we could get out without a crash. We could go slow, but with such wind, we'd struggle to stop dead halfway out (the bow would be exposed to wind/current and drift/twist us very quickly into our neighbours). Are there any tips to avoid this? All I can think is to keep tapping the horn as we move off, which would piss off/alert our live-aboard neighbours.

Edit: It's the tide times that are stopping us this weekend, not stopgates.

 

[RobEllis999]

Good to hear you're still enjoying the boat and got your first overnighter in. I had my Falcon23 on a swinging mooring in Teignmouth 10-15 years ago and was quite restricted with tide times, sometimes leaving home at 4am to get to Teignmouth and make the most of the tide. My other half at the time wasn't interested in the boat so I never had the chance to overnight in a local marina. Sorry I can't help with your 'large' neighbour. Perhaps get the other half to sit on the bow whilst you edge out? I'm retired now and living in Cyprus but the boat 'itch' hasn't gone away and I think I may well scratch it again soon &#55357;&#56832; Best wishes.

 

[vodzurk]

Good to hear you're still enjoying the boat and got your first overnighter in. I had my Falcon23 on a swinging mooring in Teignmouth 10-15 years ago and was quite restricted with tide times, sometimes leaving home at 4am to get to Teignmouth and make the most of the tide. My other half at the time wasn't interested in the boat so I never had the chance to overnight in a local marina. Sorry I can't help with your 'large' neighbour. Perhaps get the other half to sit on the bow whilst you edge out? I'm retired now and living in Cyprus but the boat 'itch' hasn't gone away and I think I may well scratch it again soon �� Best wishes.

I can't imagine going from having a boat to not. I think I'd go crackers. I suppose I'm still early on the getting-sick-of-it curve though, and very much enjoying it still (despite the steep learning curve).

I think going forward if we have the same situation again with pulling out blind, we'll just honk the horn every 2 seconds as we ease out (as well as do whatever we can lookout-wise). Not a problem now though because...

... I managed to convince the other half to overnight again for a 6am start on Sunday (28-May), and as a result, because the weather was utterly perfect, we now have the new home for Gorjus in Portishead.

Here's our second video... showing how much I'd forgotten about the parking aspects of engines and swinging the rear/front. Think I've got it sussed now, it clicked in my head right at the end that it's the reverse of what I was trying to do (turn to the right, back swings sharp left, etc).