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Time to switch to electric ?

prv

Well-known member
Joined
29 Nov 2009
Messages
36,063
Location
Southampton
Our outboard is a 35kg Yamaha Enduro 15hp. We dont have a lifting crane. We lift the whole dinghy up the side of the hull just forward of the spreaders. We do it using the Spinnaker halyard either with the rope drum on the windlass or a winch at the mast. We have a three point bridle permanently rigged for this purpose.
I do exactly the same with my tiddly 10kg-ish 2.5hp outboard. It’s not too heavy to lower by hand, but it’s still awkward, needs two people, and presents a risk of dropping it in the sea. Fitting the outboard to the dinghy on the foredeck and then lifting the whole lot overboard with the spinnaker halyard is easier and less risky, especially if there’s a chop, and I can do it on my own although it’s more elegant with help. I don’t have a warping drum on the windlass but the halyard winch is perfectly sufficient for our dinghy and engine.

Pete
 

geem

Well-known member
Joined
27 Apr 2006
Messages
2,787
Location
Anywhere without Covid19
I do exactly the same with my tiddly 10kg-ish 2.5hp outboard. It’s not too heavy to lower by hand, but it’s still awkward, needs two people, and presents a risk of dropping it in the sea. Fitting the outboard to the dinghy on the foredeck and then lifting the whole lot overboard with the spinnaker halyard is easier and less risky, especially if there’s a chop, and I can do it on my own although it’s more elegant with help. I don’t have a warping drum on the windlass but the halyard winch is perfectly sufficient for our dinghy and engine.

Pete
I dont actually put my dinghy on the foredeck. I leave it over the side of the boat leaning on the guardwires. Tie off the bow with the painter and use a line at the stern so its not bouncing around. I then just lower the engine on to the transom. Its the same procedure for engine removal.
We also hoist the dinghy up and leave it stowed against the guardwires like this every night. It stops it getting stolen and reduces growth on the bottom. 😀
 

jordanbasset

Well-known member
Joined
31 Dec 2007
Messages
28,974
Location
UK, Greece and Spain
We have a Torqueedo 1003, it was on the boat when we bought it and I was sceptical at first. Remember having a conversation with my wife that we could always a buy a petrol outboard if we didn't like it
Have been very satisfied with it, breaks down into 3 parts, easy peasy to put on and off the dinghy
No problems with range, although we never anchor that far off shore it seldom uses more than 5% for each trip to shore and back. We charge it from the batteries via an inverter( we have solar panels)
 

Praxinoscope

Well-known member
Joined
12 Mar 2018
Messages
2,480
Location
Aberaeron
The fact that it didn't have any hydrocarbon means of recharging the batteries that the bilge pump was relying upon was somewhat material.

You've made so many posts in favour of electric prolusion on this thread that I have to wonder if you're in that line of business.
Perhaps the 'pvb' is a clue? 'Photo-Voltaic-Battery'?
 

lw395

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2007
Messages
42,060
I'm just too heavy, I think. My other half's bike has a 250W (I think) motor, which just isn't up to lugging me up the hill and I couldn't pedal hard enough to keep it going fast enough for the assist to stay on, So off it went and I was worse off than ever. If I'm going to push a bike up the hill it might as well be my scruffy old 21 speed hybrid and not a grand's worth of ballast ...

Someone else suggested them, and I've had a look. They do a special higher power model (Big Bear Plus) for the larger rider, which looks like just what I need, but alas they won't have them in stock till mid-August. By which time I expect that the e-bikes being sold now will start to appear on the second hand market.
[/QUOTE]
250W. let's guess at 125kg. That should haul uphill at something like 0.2m/s rate of climb? So up a 1 in 6, about 1.2m/s or 2.8mph.
Last time I got on an exercise bike with a power readout, I could do 500W for a reasonable period.
If the gear ratios were ideal for the hill, an extra 250W ought to be a respectable boost. But the motor is probably gear for the flat and doesn't actually give 250W on the hill?
OTOH, back when I was young, getting up a 1 in 6 on a moped was an achievement, and getting down again in one piece could involve an element of luck.
4HP or about 3kW is pretty painfully slow sometimes.

There's a reason these things don't count as motorbikes for tax and licence purposes...
 

JumbleDuck

Well-known member
Joined
8 Aug 2013
Messages
21,189
Location
SW Scotland
250W. let's guess at 125kg. That should haul uphill at something like 0.2m/s rate of climb? So up a 1 in 6, about 1.2m/s or 2.8mph.
Last time I got on an exercise bike with a power readout, I could do 500W for a reasonable period.
If the gear ratios were ideal for the hill, an extra 250W ought to be a respectable boost. But the motor is probably gear for the flat and doesn't actually give 250W on the hill?
The general rule of thumb is that an average human can supply 100W mechanical power indefinitely and 500W for a short burts. Trained athletes can double these. When I was fitter I regularly cycled up that hill, but never at much more than 5mph in 1 very low gear. Now I'm slower and the motor simply wouldn't give me enough additional speed.

OTOH, back when I was young, getting up a 1 in 6 on a moped was an achievement, and getting down again in one piece could involve an element of luck.
4HP or about 3kW is pretty painfully slow sometimes.
BTDTGTTS. My first motorised transport was a Vélosolex Moped - 3hp roller drive to the front wheel. It could take me up Headington Hill in Oxford, but only if I had decoked it recently. It's in a lean-to, awaiting restoration, not having run since early 1988 ...
 

Long-John Saliva

Active member
Joined
28 Dec 2016
Messages
254
Aside: I have just tried my other half's nice new e-Bike with a view to getting one for myself. However, on the hill away from the house the motor isn't powerful enough to keep my rather large body moving fast enough, so it cuts out (at 5mph, I think) leaving me to pedal a bike which weighs more than twice what my normal one does. I am reluctant to spend a grand and a half on a bike which can only give assistance when I don't need it.
I know nothing about outboards really but that isn't a good e-bike. I've used some and found them very helpful. (Like cycling around hilly Croatian islands in 30C heat)
 

Long-John Saliva

Active member
Joined
28 Dec 2016
Messages
254
The general rule of thumb is that an average human can supply 100W mechanical power indefinitely and 500W for a short burts. Trained athletes can double these. When I was fitter I regularly cycled up that hill, but never at much more than 5mph in 1 very low gear. Now I'm slower and the motor simply wouldn't give me enough additional speed.



BTDTGTTS. My first motorised transport was a Vélosolex Moped - 3hp roller drive to the front wheel. It could take me up Headington Hill in Oxford, but only if I had decoked it recently. It's in a lean-to, awaiting restoration, not having run since early 1988 ...
Velosolex???? Can I marry you?
 

Babylon

Well-known member
Joined
7 Jan 2008
Messages
3,834
Location
Solent
Late to this thread (and skipping the bit about e-bikes) these are my observations:
  • If I didn't have a still very good 2.5hp Mercury 2-stroke (2006 the last year of availability in UK) then I'd at least consider electric.
  • For use just on the river, i.e. to/from my mooring, then I'd take the battery home for re-charging.
  • For cruising, including using the tender to explore further afield,I wouldn't want to be limited to the range of a single charge.
  • I accept that one can always plug in overnight if there is shore-power, but my cruising only involves occasional stops at marinas.
  • I wouldn't want to have to run the boat engine specifically to charge the battery - and when having to motor or motor-sail between anchorages etc I'd prefer that charging up the domestic batteries and cooling the fridge take priority.
  • If I lost my 2-stroke for any reason, a new 4-str of similar power would be a third of the cost of the equivalent electric - but I'd look out for a good used 2-str anyway!
 

siwhi

Member
Joined
21 Nov 2012
Messages
110
Location
Greenock
what about if it gets dumped in the water ?
3 years ago we left a beach party in Carlisle Bay, Bridgetown, Barbados about midnight. Wife and I were fairly pissed, kids were tired. About 5 minutes out, whilst zigzagging around trying to find our boat we heard shouts of help from the leeward end of the anchorage, probably over 600 metres out from the beach. At first we thought it was a joke and laughed. Then the cries became more persistent and louder and I began to think it was some type of trap. We slowly headed over and some way out to sea found a Swiss couple struggling in the water, having been there some time. Their tender was almost totally submerged and capsized but still slowly spinning around in the water. Their Torqeedo was still running despite being in the water. Obviously they had not clipped on the kill cord (I assume there is one?) so even though the motor was in the water it continued to drive.

The man, early 70's and overweight, though clearly tired, totally pissed and struggling in the water, insisted on diving under to try to stop the motor and rescue the dinghy. It's dark, no one can see much, we're slowly being blown out to sea by strong trades, there's a drunk woman hanging onto our small dinghy as we try to get her into the boat, and the guy is diving on a working outboard. Fortunately I sobered up pretty quick and held him captive to our dinghy by his arms while the kids ballasted the boat on the other side. We dragged them to the nearest anchored boat (being unable to get them in the dinghy), dropped it's swim ladder and shouted to the sleeping owners to wake up and help. Then I dropped the kids back on our boat and went to get the capsized dinghy (a banana boat rigid dinghy) with the still powered up Torqeedo. We sorted it all out at the anchored boat, righted and bailed the dinghy and dragged them back to their boat.

Anyway, you get the point. I actually like the product and would happily have one, but this could not happen to a petrol outboard. Use a killcord, yes, of course, easy to say, but not many liveaboards coming back from the pub do. I think those banana boat dinghies are dangerous in anything above flat water.
 

pvb

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
39,804
Location
UK East Coast
3 years ago we left a beach party in Carlisle Bay, Bridgetown, Barbados about midnight. Wife and I were fairly pissed, kids were tired. About 5 minutes out, whilst zigzagging around trying to find our boat we heard shouts of help from the leeward end of the anchorage, probably over 600 metres out from the beach. At first we thought it was a joke and laughed. Then the cries became more persistent and louder and I began to think it was some type of trap. We slowly headed over and some way out to sea found a Swiss couple struggling in the water, having been there some time. Their tender was almost totally submerged and capsized but still slowly spinning around in the water. Their Torqeedo was still running despite being in the water. Obviously they had not clipped on the kill cord (I assume there is one?) so even though the motor was in the water it continued to drive.

The man, early 70's and overweight, though clearly tired, totally pissed and struggling in the water, insisted on diving under to try to stop the motor and rescue the dinghy. It's dark, no one can see much, we're slowly being blown out to sea by strong trades, there's a drunk woman hanging onto our small dinghy as we try to get her into the boat, and the guy is diving on a working outboard. Fortunately I sobered up pretty quick and held him captive to our dinghy by his arms while the kids ballasted the boat on the other side. We dragged them to the nearest anchored boat (being unable to get them in the dinghy), dropped it's swim ladder and shouted to the sleeping owners to wake up and help. Then I dropped the kids back on our boat and went to get the capsized dinghy (a banana boat rigid dinghy) with the still powered up Torqeedo. We sorted it all out at the anchored boat, righted and bailed the dinghy and dragged them back to their boat.

Anyway, you get the point. I actually like the product and would happily have one, but this could not happen to a petrol outboard. Use a killcord, yes, of course, easy to say, but not many liveaboards coming back from the pub do. I think those banana boat dinghies are dangerous in anything above flat water.
The Torqeedo has a magnetic kill cord. It won't operate unless the little magnetic fob is in place.
 

sailingmartin

New member
Joined
28 Nov 2017
Messages
13
Location
Bristol
3 years ago we left a beach party in Carlisle Bay, Bridgetown, Barbados about midnight. Wife and I were fairly pissed, kids were tired. About 5 minutes out, whilst zigzagging around trying to find our boat we heard shouts of help from the leeward end of the anchorage, probably over 600 metres out from the beach. At first we thought it was a joke and laughed. Then the cries became more persistent and louder and I began to think it was some type of trap. We slowly headed over and some way out to sea found a Swiss couple struggling in the water, having been there some time. Their tender was almost totally submerged and capsized but still slowly spinning around in the water. Their Torqeedo was still running despite being in the water. Obviously they had not clipped on the kill cord (I assume there is one?) so even though the motor was in the water it continued to drive.

The man, early 70's and overweight, though clearly tired, totally pissed and struggling in the water, insisted on diving under to try to stop the motor and rescue the dinghy. It's dark, no one can see much, we're slowly being blown out to sea by strong trades, there's a drunk woman hanging onto our small dinghy as we try to get her into the boat, and the guy is diving on a working outboard. Fortunately I sobered up pretty quick and held him captive to our dinghy by his arms while the kids ballasted the boat on the other side. We dragged them to the nearest anchored boat (being unable to get them in the dinghy), dropped it's swim ladder and shouted to the sleeping owners to wake up and help. Then I dropped the kids back on our boat and went to get the capsized dinghy (a banana boat rigid dinghy) with the still powered up Torqeedo. We sorted it all out at the anchored boat, righted and bailed the dinghy and dragged them back to their boat.

Anyway, you get the point. I actually like the product and would happily have one, but this could not happen to a petrol outboard. Use a killcord, yes, of course, easy to say, but not many liveaboards coming back from the pub do. I think those banana boat dinghies are dangerous in anything above flat water.
A scary night for all concerned. I had a similar capsize in the strong surf in Barbuda, but in daylight, when sober and with an inflatable. However my petrol outboard didn’t work afterwards. I expect the Torqeedo worked the next morning. Shows that it is indeed waterproof!
 
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