The RYA, marinas, and lockdown.

[sarabande]

In several threads there is concern that boat owners are not getting what they have paid for because of the lockdown.

Is there anyone high up in the RYA food chain who can coordinate a high level review of the situation to see if our national organisation can reach an agreement with marinas and yards that "force majeure" is in place, and that the lockdown of our boats should not attract continuing charges beyond a normal launch date.

As I see it, if a marina continues to charge monthly fees, and the owner is not allowed access, then the marina is profiting beyond reason. It is analogous to being charged for parking in an empty car park, where the park owner is not needing every space to derive income.

, i

 

[dunedin]

Perhaps RYA Cruising Manager Stuart Carruthers would be a good place to start ?
Meet the team... Stuart Carruthers | Inbrief | e-newsletters | News & Events | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

 

[capnsensible]

In several threads there is concern that boat owners are not getting what they have paid for because of the lockdown.

Is there anyone high up in the RYA food chain who can coordinate a high level review of the situation to see if our national organisation can reach an agreement with marinas and yards that "force majeure" is in place, and that the lockdown of our boats should not attract continuing charges beyond a normal launch date.

As I see it, if a marina continues to charge monthly fees, and the owner is not allowed access, then the marina is profiting beyond reason. It is analogous to being charged for parking in an empty car park, where the park owner is not needing every space to derive income.

, i

Indeed, an email to the 'RYA' may answer your question.

My yacht is in a marina. Just because I cant use it, I dont see why I shouldnt be charged for renting the berth. Hurrah should that change but she is still sat on a safe and secure mooring. Which is what Im paying for.

 

[mbroom]

I am paying for my marina berth, but have no access at all. What are all the marina staff doing meantime? If any have been laid off, then I would expect a discount. Luckily I moved to a cheaper marina just before the lockdown, but people stuck in winter berths before wanting to return to a summer mooring have more cause to be aggrieved.
Presumably reception staff will now have nothing to do, and toilets need less cleaning....

 

[bdh198]

My boat is in a marina, the marina is closed, but as Capnsensible says, she is safe and secure and the marina are still providing 24 hour manned security. If anything happens to the boat the marina would owe me the usual duty of care.

Even if my marina did allow access I can’t see how I could justify going down as a “reasonable excuse” for leaving my house under the government’s public health regulations. In some limited circumstances it might be, for example, if I genuinely feared she was at risk of damage, or if I genuinely “needed” to move her to another berth. However, simply wanting access because that’s what I’m paying for will leave me risking a £60 fine or even a criminal record.

 

[grandpaboat]

I can see this is a difficult one, marina's versus winter storage ashore. My boat is ashore for 6 months and would have been launched in April to go onto it's summer swinging mooring which of course is much cheaper with only the crown estate, mooring association fee and annual inspection to pay for. My annual inspection was due to take place this week, however I have instructed the contractor to postpone as I don't see the point in carrying out the inspection if I'm unable to use the mooring. This raises another issue as even if I don't use the mooring the Crown Estate normally requires you to have it serviced incase someone else uses the mooring. Of course this is also unlikely if no one is allowed to go boating.
Back to the yard storage issue - if they now charge for summer storage they could reasonably be accused of profiteering as these berths would largely have been empty. The six months winter storage in my yard also includes the cost of lifting out and in and they are now unable to provide the lift in part of this contract.
Hopefully the. various parties will come to a reasonable and pragmatic solution.

 

[rib]

I can see this is a difficult one, marina's versus winter storage ashore. My boat is ashore for 6 months and would have been launched in April to go onto it's summer swinging mooring which of course is much cheaper with only the crown estate, mooring association fee and annual inspection to pay for. My annual inspection was due to take place this week, however I have instructed the contractor to postpone as I don't see the point in carrying out the inspection if I'm unable to use the mooring. This raises another issue as even if I don't use the mooring the Crown Estate normally requires you to have it serviced incase someone else uses the mooring. Of course this is also unlikely if no one is allowed to go boating.
Back to the yard storage issue - if they now charge for summer storage they could reasonably be accused of profiteering as these berths would largely have been empty. The six months winter storage in my yard also includes the cost of lifting out and in and they are now unable to provide the lift in part of this contract.
Hopefully the. various parties will come to a reasonable and pragmatic solution.

Hummm it is not the marinas fault that you can't use the boat. Maintance still needs to go on to some degree. Wooden pontoons. And paint work still deteriorate. Perhaps Boris should pay for you all

 

[Graham376]

As I see it, if a marina continues to charge monthly fees, and the owner is not allowed access, then the marina is profiting beyond reason.

Sorry but I disagree. The marina is fulfilling its duties by renting the berth for the boat. It is the government who has restricted travel, not the marina owner. Marinas still have rent, rates and maintenance costs to meet like any other business so need the income. OTOH, if a marina had closed down and not allowed boats to launch from the yard or move out to moorings, BEFORE the government restrictions came into force then, that's a different matter.

One point which would worry me is the small print in insurance which may require the boat to be inspected monthly or no cover for sinking. Pants used to have/may still have this clause. Are marina staff checking boats?

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

As far as I am aware in the UK the marinas, unlike some shops, have not been required to close by law but have chosen to do so in support of the government's travel restrictions.

While that is perfectly understandable, the posts on here saying that berth holder's access cards have been disabled making any checking or responding to known issues on boats by their owners impossible does concern me.

 

[Graham376]

As far as I am aware in the UK the marinas, unlike some shops, have not been required to close by law but have chosen to do so in support of the governments travel restrictions.

While that is perfectly understandable, the posts on here saying that berth holder's access cards have been disabled making any checking or responding to known issues on boats by their owners impossible does concern me.

Just had a look at the government restrictions, car parks and storage facilities are allowed to be open - would a marina count as a storage facility?
Closing certain businesses and venues

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

Thanks for that link, I see Caravan Parks (excluding those with "live aboards") along with Playgrounds, sports courts and the like are required to close.

However all the communication I have seen regarding Marina or Boat Yards closures refer back 'essential travel' requirements.

 

[Graham376]

Thanks for that link, I see Caravan Parks (excluding those with "live aboards") along with Playgrounds, sports courts and the like are required to close.

However all the communication I have seen regarding Marina or Boat Yards closures refer back 'essential travel' requirements.

Safeguarding property which could be a danger to others would, in my mind, be an acceptable reason for travel but plod may well disagree

It's a very annoying situation for tens of millions of people throughout the world but we must limit our contact. On the face of it, being in an enclosed car and then walking down the pontoon to a boat may seem reasonably isolated but, think gate/door handles, hand rails and toilet facilities, all of which could be points of transfer.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

They may well do, but that such safeguarding required by the insurance policy ought to mean something...

As I posted in another thread, if I went down to the boat at this time of year it is unlikely I would come into contact with anybody and, for example, the gate is motorised using a fob so no contact is required. Meanwhile we get to 'meet' plenty of other people on our daily walk down to the harbour each day.

 

[Lightwave395]

One point which would worry me is the small print in insurance which may require the boat to be inspected monthly or no cover for sinking. Pants used to have/may still have this clause. Are marina staff checking boats?

My French marina is in lockdown, but they have assured berth holders that they are making daily security patrols

 

[lw395]

In several threads there is concern that boat owners are not getting what they have paid for because of the lockdown.

Is there anyone high up in the RYA food chain who can coordinate a high level review of the situation to see if our national organisation can reach an agreement with marinas and yards that "force majeure" is in place, and that the lockdown of our boats should not attract continuing charges beyond a normal launch date.

As I see it, if a marina continues to charge monthly fees, and the owner is not allowed access, then the marina is profiting beyond reason. It is analogous to being charged for parking in an empty car park, where the park owner is not needing every space to derive income.

, i

My bold.
Do we actually know that marinas are making a profit at all?

They will be getting no visitors fees.
More berths may be vacant.
They may be receiving less income from contractors, tenant businesses etc.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Safeguarding property which could be a danger to others would, in my mind, be an acceptable reason for travel but plod may well disagree

It's a very annoying situation for tens of millions of people throughout the world but we must limit our contact. On the face of it, being in an enclosed car and then walking down the pontoon to a boat may seem reasonably isolated but, think gate/door handles, hand rails and toilet facilities, all of which could be points of transfer.

Add to that breakdown , accident and a list of other stuff.

 

[capnsensible]

My bold.
Do we actually know that marinas are making a profit at all?

They will be getting no visitors fees.
More berths may be vacant.
They may be receiving less income from contractors, tenant businesses etc.

They are in the same situation as the whole of the rest of us. But my yacht is safe and secure in her berth.