The pace of change in sailing

[flaming]

I was at school when Pete Goss competed in the Vendee Globe in Acqua Quorum, and famously plucked Raphael Dinelli from the Southern Ocean. I remember following his campaign even before then, and afterwards reading his book, close to the wind, avidly about 3 times back to back. Later, on my very first day working for British Marine, my boss passed me a piece of paper with a number scribbled on it, under the name "Pete Goss" and said something like "This guy is quite interesting, he's got a new project, give him a call and see if he wants to bring it to the Show". (It was when he was doing that Shackleton recreation voyage) I just looked at the paper in stunned silence. You want ME to call Pete Goss who is "quite interesting" and just casually ask him if he'd like to bring his boat to the show...? A bloke I basically idolized as a kid..... I had quite a nice chat with him in the end! Wow, what a first day...

That boat, Acqua Quorum, was to my eyes in 1996, so cool. So modern, so sleek, so fast, so up to date...

This morning I came across a photo of it, being used to illustrate an Open 50 in a press release.

But now... it looks so dated, so clunky, so narrow, too much "pinch" at the stern and with far too much freeboard.

Which made me think quite how far boat design has come in just 25 years.
From this

To this

 

[Mudisox]

And Paul Larsen has had a few interesting types of "floating transport" as well as being involved with Peter.
World sailing record "thing'" followed by the Shackleton adventure as well. Chalk and cheese.
And as for the GP and America's cup..........

I am off for a gentle cruise around the West Country, to cool off.

 

[matt1]

I think the pace of change is accelerating, but I say that as someone who ogled Ceramco NZ moored off Mercury after the Whitbread when I was at school! What amazes me is the way the latest French cruisers (from Beneteau and esp Jeanneau) are aping IMOCA's in their hull profiles, despite obviously not having the benefits of light displacement or a canting keel. I guess to achieve space more than performance, but would be interested to see how they sail in the real world. When you look from above they don't look dissimilar to the profile of a power boat

Also another thought...how far ahead David Thomas was a designer. H brought the self tacking jib to the Hunter range of boats well before Hanse and others did, also designed the Ranger 265, 245 & 707 with chines back in the 90's. And if you look at a Red Fox, the way the beam is carried fwd isn't so different to some of the current range or cruisers. I wonder what he would be designing today?

 

[ridgy]

I saw a Pogo 30 in the flesh for the first time on Sunday and was astonished at how big it was in terms of freeboard and hull volume.

 

[Minerva]

I wonder what happened to Petes old Open 50. Presumably can’t race on the imoca circuit (old and too small), presumably would be rubbish in inshore club racing and would make a difficult boat to cruise…

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Advanced, just the materials and computation ability! I have a The Guinness Book of Yachting Facts and Feats from the 70's that has various foiling catamarans and proas and high speeds. The first regular sailing foiling boat was the trimaran Williwa back in the 70's and of course, foiling itself is over 100 years old.

Dave Keiper and WILLIWAW

I agree the application of tech in sailing is fantastic. You focus on racing, but if I compare my 41 foot 1974 boat with a 41 foot boat today, the volume is significantly more but at the same weight. A far more comfortable living and sailing experience because materials and computation methods have improved exponentially.

We all benefit from improvements in tech.

 

[flaming]

I wonder what happened to Petes old Open 50. Presumably can’t race on the imoca circuit (old and too small), presumably would be rubbish in inshore club racing and would make a difficult boat to cruise…

It suffered a sad fate unfortunately.

'Yellow boat' found in Brazil - Yachting World

 

[Tomahawk]

There are a handfull of foiling moths at the SC and of course the foiling Vampire. The concept of which is similar to the AC75 having offset foils. But unlike the AC75 it is simple to operate.

 

[Littlealexander]

I was at school when Pete Goss competed in the Vendee Globe in Acqua Quorum, and famously plucked Raphael Dinelli from the Southern Ocean. I remember following his campaign even before then, and afterwards reading his book, close to the wind, avidly about 3 times back to back. Later, on my very first day working for British Marine, my boss passed me a piece of paper with a number scribbled on it, under the name "Pete Goss" and said something like "This guy is quite interesting, he's got a new project, give him a call and see if he wants to bring it to the Show". (It was when he was doing that Shackleton recreation voyage) I just looked at the paper in stunned silence. You want ME to call Pete Goss who is "quite interesting" and just casually ask him if he'd like to bring his boat to the show...? A bloke I basically idolized as a kid..... I had quite a nice chat with him in the end! Wow, what a first day...

That boat, Acqua Quorum, was to my eyes in 1996, so cool. So modern, so sleek, so fast, so up to date...

This morning I came across a photo of it, being used to illustrate an Open 50 in a press release.

But now... it looks so dated, so clunky, so narrow, too much "pinch" at the stern and with far too much freeboard.

Which made me think quite how far boat design has come in just 25 years.
From this

To this

Following the latest designs not only in racing but cruising models, it’s phenomenal to see the rapid pace at which the designers are moving. Yachts had always remained fairly practical to the elements but as the markets continually change, so does the innovation. It’s almost like watching the roads innovate rather than the car. Exciting times.

 

[Birdseye]

For race boats maybe - racing always does "improve the breed" as one car manufacturer used to say. But I am less convinced of similar progress in cruising boats. Yes they are bigger and yes, cost control has made them lighter since materials cost money. But shape apart there really is nothing much special in modern production boats from the likes of Benny and Bav. And I doubt there ever will be since the market they sell into is essentially conservative. What would the average boat buyer make of a highly powered foiling cruising boat capable of 20/30kn?

 

[Minerva]

And I doubt there ever will be since the market they sell into is essentially conservative. What would the average boat buyer make of a highly powered foiling cruising boat capable of 20/30kn?

It would certainly be interesting! Speaking as a mid 80's Moody owner, my annual 2 week cruise will cover circa 400nm at 5kts. If I could go 5times the speed reliably then I could cover 2,000nm over the same period? That suddenly opens up the whole Eastern Atlantic Coast from Portugal to Iceland...!

Thats not something to be knocked if you were to ask me...!

 

[Mudisox]

But why would you want to rush around sailing, needing the right weather conditions and missing out visiting all those lovely ports and places you zoom past?

 

[Supertramp]

It would certainly be interesting! Speaking as a mid 80's Moody owner, my annual 2 week cruise will cover circa 400nm at 5kts. If I could go 5times the speed reliably then I could cover 2,000nm over the same period? That suddenly opens up the whole Eastern Atlantic Coast from Portugal to Iceland...!

Thats not something to be knocked if you were to ask me...!

I would be worried about spilling my gin jumping off waves....

Seriously though in cars the development of racing technology doesn't lead to us driving racing cars so in boats the trickledown is likely to be in materials and fittings. But the downside is that my car is so complicated that I barely understand the sound system and I haven't got a spare wheel to change. Expedition vehicles shy away from the technology and rely on proven engineering which can be repaired. I think boats are similar, and your Moody and many "old fashioned" boats will be used and sought after for a certain sort of sailing.

 

[Pete7]

Thats not something to be knocked if you were to ask me...!

Indeed, watched the YT video of a Pogo 36 recently. Great interior IHMO and when they put the sails up it was doing 12 knots. That's across Biscay in a couple of days.

Pete

 

[Daydream believer]

Great interior IHMO

Except that you would end up with back ache, as one cannot stand upright, unless the boat was heeled at 40 degrees all the way across Biscay

 

[Pete7]

Except that you would end up with back ache, as one cannot stand upright, unless the boat was heeled at 40 degrees all the way across Biscay

1.95m is quite good don't you think?

 

[Daydream believer]

No I do not. One has to stand in a hole in the first part ( then it is insufficient) . From there on it gets progressively less. Note how the berth is very short.

 

[Seastoke]

No I do not. One has to stand in a hole in the first part ( then it is insufficient) . From there on it gets progressively less. Note how the berth is very short.

Yep

 

[Tomahawk]

I would be worried about spilling my gin jumping off waves....

Seriously though in cars the development of racing technology doesn't lead to us driving racing cars so in boats the trickledown is likely to be in materials and fittings. But the downside is that my car is so complicated that I barely understand the sound system and I haven't got a spare wheel to change. Expedition vehicles shy away from the technology and rely on proven engineering which can be repaired. I think boats are similar, and your Moody and many "old fashioned" boats will be used and sought after for a certain sort of sailing.

But racing development did lead to aerodynamics, fuel injection, ABS, crash safety, active suspension, electronic gear box management, telemetry and a whole raft of otherwise unseen benefits we now take for granted.

 

[Laser310]

Indeed, watched the YT video of a Pogo 36 recently. Great interior IHMO and when they put the sails up it was doing 12 knots. That's across Biscay in a couple of days.

Pete

i'm thinking of chartering a pogo 36 in september - i think they look quite nice.

probably not a live-aboard.., but fine as a weekender with the occasional week or two for a holiday.