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Tacking under sail out of Chichester

dom

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17 Dec 2003
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The first time I sailed out of Pompey harbour, starboard hand markers were black and the person who invented the small boat channel may have still been in school. 😀😀

I was at the time.

Wow, that brings me back. Mind you the stbd buoys where I used to sail were only repainted from black to green in 2011!
MN#123/11 SHANNON NAVIGATION - Lough Derg - Marker Colour Change

Though if ever that way, be aware that a pole in mud counts as a marker and you have to guess its colour 😲
 
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I often sail both in and out of Chichester harbour and I have never thought that doing so might be deemed "disrespectful". "Narrow Channel" must be around a couple of hundred metres minimum width, depending on the tide. Just how much room do the motoring vessels want? If you are afraid of vessels tacking around you, perhaps you should avoid Chichester harbour entirely when the racing dinghy fleets are out....
 

rotrax

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Dont be obtuse.

On a sunny weekend at early evening when many are coming in for the night or back to their moorings it can be really busy. Others are leaving to return to Pompey or other Solent destinations. You can have trouble sometimes avoiding the usual traffic let alone someone who wishes to sail out or in by tacking back and forth across the channel. I have experienced many times over forty vessels in the channel. Sail by all means, but if making several tacks is required you will not be popular. And rightly so.

Other times, we have been the only vessel there.

THAT is the time to sail in or out.

IMHO, of course.
 

Mark-1

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I have experienced many times over forty vessels in the channel.
On a day when there's 40 in the entrance there will be a multiple of that in Chi Channel and nobody's saying it's wrong to sail there. Hundreds of people sail throughout Chi Harbour, I can't see how it suddenly becomes anti-social when you get to the entrance.
 

RJJ

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It depends. If they are incompetent because they are inexperience then I agree. If they are incompetent because they just can't be bothered to develop competence then I'm happy to belittle away.
Yes, let's treat the learner drivers more gently. You can tell them from the more experienced and skilful, because the former have twenty-foot L plates on their sails.
 

RJJ

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On a day when there's 40 in the entrance there will be a multiple of that in Chi Channel and nobody's saying it's wrong to sail there. Hundreds of people sail throughout Chi Harbour, I can't see how it suddenly becomes anti-social when you get to the entrance.
Chi Channel is wider and the tide's less strong and there are fewer boats (having separated from Sparkes/Mengham/Emsworth boats.

If it's crowded, it's crowded. If it's inconsiderate to be tacking amid a multitude of other boats, it's inconsiderate.
 

JumbleDuck

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Yes, let's treat the learner drivers more gently. You can tell them from the more experienced and skilful, because the former have twenty-foot L plates on their sails.
And if they don't, they shouldn't play on the motorway.
 

Mark-1

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Chi Channel is wider and the tide's less strong and there are fewer boats (having separated from Sparkes/Mengham/Emsworth boats.
Well, the Tide's pretty strong past Itchenor, and it's Ok, to sail through there in spite of moorings. I don't accept Chi channel is less busy either, it's almost always the busiest part of the Harbour by a large margin. Not sure the tide matters anyway, all the boats are in the same tide, there's no relative difference.

If it's crowded, it's crowded. If it's inconsiderate to be tacking amid a multitude of other boats, it's inconsiderate.
Except it isn't in any of the other crowded places. When the harbour is heaving (weekend HW) hundreds of people are sailing and there's no suggestion it's inconsiderate. Does it suddenly become inconsiderate around the entrance? I'm not convinced.
 

Topcat47

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I personally would not enter or leave Chichester without my engine on UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES; this also applies to Langstone harbour. Neither harbour mouth is a good place to be caught out. Try it in Portsmouth Harbour and you'll get QHM down on you like a ton of bricks. I think it's a question of seamanship rather than sailing skill.
 

dom

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I’m wondering if some people adopt a “don’t dare cut me up” motorway mentality when navigating a confined channel?

Because if one doesn’t, it‘s easy for a vessel under power to back off or rev up a little so as to avoid any trouble whatsoever.
 

Scala

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IMHO it's about the relative danger of the entrance vs the general body of water, whether in the main channel or otherwise? Dinghy fleets were a fact of life, mostly OK (foiling moths aside) but I never felt happy between Bar Beacon and N W Winner whether entering or leaving, when it was busy and others were beating, sometimes making little if any progress.
 

RJJ

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And if they don't, they shouldn't play on the motorway.
You probably realised I was being ironic. You can't tell who is expert and who is a novice. Therefore it's not reasonable to assume (as other on the this thread have done) that other vessels can predict when a tack is imminent. And that's not even what's at stake; you are making assumptions about their assumptions about your behaviour, given they (even if expert) will be guessing what path you take out of a tack etc. And at worst, affecting not just one boat, but the boat behind them etc that you probably didn't take notice of.

So if someone's a new DS feeling their way, they shouldn't be allowed to motor up busy channels, because you want to tack back and forth across them unnecessarily? Or god forbid anyone might want to put their less-experienced wife or chum on the helm and say "stay inside the red posts".

Just don't do it. Sail when you have a free leg, or when it's not busy. At other times, don't place undue expectation on other vessels who may quite reasonably be less able to anticipate your moves than you think.
 

dom

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........Therefore it's not reasonable to assume (as other on the this thread have done) that other vessels can predict when a tack is imminent. And that's not even what's at stake; you are making assumptions about their assumptions about your behaviour, given they (even if expert) will be guessing what path you take out of a tack etc. And at worst, affecting not just one boat, but the boat behind them etc that you probably didn't take notice of.

So if someone's a new DS feeling their way, they shouldn't be allowed to motor up busy channels, because you want to tack back and forth across them unnecessarily? Or god forbid anyone might want to put their less-experienced wife or chum on the helm and say "stay inside the red posts".

Just don't do it. Sail when you have a free leg, or when it's not busy. At other times, don't place undue expectation on other vessels who may quite reasonably be less able to anticipate your moves than you think.

This is your opinion and while one may share some of these sentiments it nevertheless finds no place in the IRPCS or in Chichester Bye Laws which govern such matters. It is also dangerous IMHO. For example:

“Or god forbid anyone might want to put their less-experienced wife or chum on the helm and say "stay inside the red posts".​

If you did just that and if your vessel hit a beating vessel through lack of experience/knowledge of the IRPCS, then the liability for the ensuing damage would be yours. As a competent skipper it is your obligation not to hand over control of your vessel in circumstances where doing so endangers the safety of your and other vessels’ passengers and equipment.

Your defence that the sailing vessel should somehow have foreseen this lapse in judgement would hold no water.
 
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Mark-1

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So if someone's a new DS feeling their way, they shouldn't be allowed to motor up busy channels, because you want to tack back and forth across them unnecessarily? Or god forbid anyone might want to put their less-experienced wife or chum on the helm and say "stay inside the red posts".
Errr, yes that's right. One option is for everyone to periodically stop sailing because they might encounter a newbie, the other is for newbies to take a bit of care and sail within their capabilities.

I really can't see how the former is in any way practical.

But once again, this whole debate is insane because the entrance isn't the busiest bit of the harbour. The vast majority of the boats are sailing about inside the harbour. If the newbie sailor doesn't fancy the entrance he's going to wet himself once he's in!
 
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Stemar

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The vast majority of the boats are sailing about inside the harbour. If the newbie sailor doesn't fancy the entrance he's going to wet himself once he's in!
This is true. If you aren't used to it, it's terrifying on a Sunday afternoon. Hell. I'm used to it and it still terrifies me! The general consensus seems to be to ignore the swarms of dinghies and keep a steady course and speed when under power, or you'll dodge one and hit three more, always staying on the qui vive in case the one crossing in front of you stops suddenly.
 

Babylon

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Sail within the limits of your (and your crew's) abilities
Do whatever is allowed and expected under the rules
Expect others to know and follow the rules but don't rely upon it
Show consideration for others (aka don't embarrass the other guy)
If you have the option, choose good seamanship
etc

I've often seen quite large yachts tacking with beautiful elegance and timing up the Hamble, but these have usually been on quieter occasions, e.g. late on a Sunday afternoon after everyone else is safely ashore and tucked up snugly in a bar, rather than on a hectic Saturday morning in mid-summer.
 

capnsensible

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Errr, yes that's right. One option is for everyone to periodically stop sailing because they might encounter a newbie, the other is for newbies to take a bit of care and sail within their capabilities.

I really can't see how the former is in any way practical.

But once again, this whole debate is insane because the entrance isn't the busiest bit of the harbour. The vast majority of the boats are sailing about inside the harbour. If the newbie sailor doesn't fancy the entrance he's going to wet himself once he's in!
Yeah. It's really not a difficult place to sail into. I don't think anyone on this thread should be telling others what they can and can't do! In my opinion....😀

If I was doing it at a busy time and I was clearly being a pain in the ass in congested waters, I'm quite capable of changing my mind, on engine, roll up headsail.
 

Mark-1

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Yeah. It's really not a difficult place to sail into. I don't think anyone on this thread should be telling others what they can and can't do! In my opinion....😀

If I was doing it at a busy time and I was clearly being a pain in the ass in congested waters, I'm quite capable of changing my mind, on engine, roll up headsail.
Yup, perfectly acceptable to stop sailing at times to make life easier for others, but there's there's no moral obligation to do so.

If I was retired I'd probably avoid sailing at weekends to give other people more space, but I don't think it's morally required.
 

JumbleDuck

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So if someone's a new DS feeling their way, they shouldn't be allowed to motor up busy channels, because you want to tack back and forth across them unnecessarily? Or god forbid anyone might want to put their less-experienced wife or chum on the helm and say "stay inside the red posts".
Anyone who abandons an inexperienced helm to it in crowded areas is being grossly irresponsible.
 
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