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Swinging moorings....overnight stays.

ANDY_W

Member
Joined
19 Oct 2004
Messages
270
Location
somerset
If the new regulations require the police to "escort" you home then I forsee practical problems if they are faced with multiple transgressions from people living some distance away
Indeed, but not our problem!
I suspect that most people would get the message fairly quickly and disappear. The odd one or two that didn't would almost inevitably be arrested for public order offences and spend a night or two in the cells before appearing in court. Then they would still have to go home but considerably poorer!
Following the train of thought in the posts above, while most harbourmasters do not have the power of arrest, there is nothing to stop them bringing out a police officer in their launch if enough boats are involved.
 

prv

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Joined
29 Nov 2009
Messages
36,042
Location
Southampton
The reasonable excuses included in the amendment to the regulations do not explicitly exclude other reasonable excuses. However, in the context of overnight stays on a boat, the reasonable excuse would have to, in the first instance, satisfy a police officer and, perhaps later, a magistrate.
An attempt to use an "excuse" would have to satisfy the legal definition of reasonable as applied in court. In other words, what would a law-abiding, averagely intelligent person do, think or say.
Quite so.

And this generally law-abiding, averagely intelligent person thinks that an anchored boat surrounded by hundreds of metres of empty seawater in all directions is quite clearly posing no risk of transferring any infection, the reason for which, let us not forget, the regulations exist. And therefore its presence there is reasonable.

You're also quite right that in practice what matters is attitudes to enforcement. We only have a couple of weeks' experience of that so far, but that experience is of boats anchoring in all the "standard" Solent anchorages and being left sensibly alone. And it would seem quite perverse for the police to ignore beaches packed shoulder-to-shoulder yet head out to harass yachts at night.

Pete
 

Stork_III

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Joined
6 Aug 2002
Messages
14,806
Location
On Lockdown
If the new regulations require the police to "escort" you home then I forsee practical problems if they are faced with multiple transgressions from people living some distance away
They don't require the Police to escort you home, it says "may" etc
 

ANDY_W

Member
Joined
19 Oct 2004
Messages
270
Location
somerset
Quite so.

And this generally law-abiding, averagely intelligent person thinks that an anchored boat surrounded by hundreds of metres of empty seawater in all directions is quite clearly posing no risk of transferring any infection, the reason for which, let us not forget, the regulations exist. And therefore its presence there is reasonable.

You're also quite right that in practice what matters is attitudes to enforcement. We only have a couple of weeks' experience of that so far, but that experience is of boats anchoring in all the "standard" Solent anchorages and being left sensibly alone. And it would seem quite perverse for the police to ignore beaches packed shoulder-to-shoulder yet head out to harass yachts at night.

Pete
In terms of the likely risk I agree with you, however it's not me you have to convince.

Beaches are generally empty at night and police do run night shifts. The phrase " low hanging fruit " comes to mind.
 

DJE

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Joined
21 Jun 2004
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6,869
Location
Fareham
In terms of the likely risk I agree with you, however it's not me you have to convince.

Beaches are generally empty at night and police do run night shifts. The phrase " low hanging fruit " comes to mind.
And hopefully terms like "policing by consent", "waste of resources", and "public ridicule" might occur to the relevant chief constable.
 

ANDY_W

Member
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19 Oct 2004
Messages
270
Location
somerset
And hopefully terms like "policing by consent", "waste of resources", and "public ridicule" might occur to the relevant chief constable.
Why? An offence will apparently have been committed and his/her officers will be enforcing the legislation. Frankly the public and press wouldn't care about what they might view as " rich yotties", so neither will any Chief Constable.
 

DJE

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21 Jun 2004
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Plenty of low-hanging fruit staying in second homes on the Isle of Wight or in camper Vans at Hill Head and Lee on Solent.
 

DJE

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You've got to admire the government's cheek though. They are effectively imposing a curfew from tomorrow and presenting it as "easing the lockdown".
 

Tomahawk

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5 Sep 2010
Messages
15,707
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Where life is good
What strikes me most about all this is how it brings out peoples true nature.

There are thousands of people who sre making huge efforts to help others. Sewing scrubs or making face masks on 3d printers for medics. Checkout staff standing up to the plate to make sure we don’t go short of food. Delivery drivers, warehouse staff, electricity engineers and an army of similar jobs keeping the cogs working. And of course the medics, sometimes working unhuman shifts..

Yet at the same time we have the peti minded officious types taking the opportunity to big themselves up by being as awkward as they can. Councils closed the household tips... Yet carrying waste up the steps st the waste transfer station is a lot of hard work and therefore is undoubtedly exercise. Councils like Cleethorps closing the car parks in order to prvent people having access to open space. Clubs (yacht and dingy in my case but I am certain golf, tennis etc) closing the toilets to prevent people having access to hygiene facilities in order to force people to stay at home. My local boots saying only one of us (married couple) can enter the shop because it’s a rule.

It seems to me that certain types of people fail to understand the regulatins are a means to the end and have taken them to be the objective. Hence plod patrolling moorings or caravans in order to catch out. But even worse in my opinion are those who denounce anyone they deem to break the regulations.

What sort of people have we become?
 

Little Grebe

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9 Jun 2009
Messages
5,813
Location
From the Needles to the Nab, from Cowes to St Cath
On the last point recent events have revealed those people with authoritarian instincts.

The amount if people that chose to report their neighbours for breach guidance is troubling but I think the root set in when people started submitting dashcam footage to the police via online portals
 

SimonFa

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Joined
25 Feb 2013
Messages
4,228
Location
Me North Dorset. Venezia in Portland.
Quite so.

And this generally law-abiding, averagely intelligent person thinks that an anchored boat surrounded by hundreds of metres of empty seawater in all directions is quite clearly posing no risk of transferring any infection, the reason for which, let us not forget, the regulations exist. And therefore its presence there is reasonable.

You're also quite right that in practice what matters is attitudes to enforcement. We only have a couple of weeks' experience of that so far, but that experience is of boats anchoring in all the "standard" Solent anchorages and being left sensibly alone. And it would seem quite perverse for the police to ignore beaches packed shoulder-to-shoulder yet head out to harass yachts at night.

Pete
My reading of the new regulations is that they are a badly written attempt to stop people staying with mates or family (with specific exceptions) or using 2nd homes.

The reason they don't want travel and staying away is that health care systems are configured for the local population size and any influx of people eg camp sites and 2nd homes, could overwhelm them. That argument was made for places like Cornwall and Devon, but the relatively small number of boaters would be in the noise. Furthermore, there is very little pressure on health care systems now and it would be quite easy to reimpose overnight stay bans.

I appreciate its difficult in law to cover all eventualities but I wonder if the RYA has been lobbying hard enough to exempt boats that are self contained?
 

Tomahawk

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I consider that argument is a load of bolleaux..
In normal times the holiday homes and camp sites are full all summer.. People staying in them suffer the normal incidences of illness and problems and need local hospital services. The health services are geared up for normal summer ... Stopping people moving out to their holiday accommodation actually increases pressure on the health services in the cities.
 

SimonFa

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25 Feb 2013
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4,228
Location
Me North Dorset. Venezia in Portland.
I consider that argument is a load of bolleaux..
In normal times the holiday homes and camp sites are full all summer.. People staying in them suffer the normal incidences of illness and problems and need local hospital services. The health services are geared up for normal summer ... Stopping people moving out to their holiday accommodation actually increases pressure on the health services in the cities.
They had a point when the epidemic started, not least because of knowledge and the number of unknowns and it was winter so the hospitals were under pressure. The health care system isn't usually under pressure in summer, even in holiday areas, which makes the arguments even less convincing. Furthermore we now know enough to be able to react to any outbreak quickly.
 

xcw

Member
Joined
14 Jun 2002
Messages
421
Anyone considering staying aboard overnight on swinging moorings be aware that in Poole the Harbour Master is reported to monitor the swinging moorings in the HM launch and send potential over nighters home. Guess it is an anomaly of the umbrella rules that marinas and other close quarters moorings have on the general no overnight stays anywhere.
A friend of mine spent a couple of nights anchored at Pottery Quay this weekend and reported no sign of the Harbour Master throwing people off moorings.
 

oldharry

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Joined
30 May 2001
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9,027
Location
North from the Nab about 10 miles
The regulations do not limit the time or distance involved in recreation for physical, mental and emotional well-being. There is no mention of overnight stays, so if an overnight stay is deemed necessary by an individual for the above reasons, it is not explicitly prohibited.

In fact, as far as I can see, provided one believed it was necessary to ones' well-being, one could travel to ones' boat in France without contravening UK law.
See Governemnt guidleines published 31st May: Staying alert and safe (social distancing)

From Section 2:

"It is important that everyone continues to act responsibly in public places, as the large majority have done to date. The infection rate will increase if people begin to break the rules. It will remain prohibited in law for people to:

  • visit friends and family inside their homes or spend time indoors with anyone you do not live with - subject to limited exceptions, for example, for work, providing emergency assistance or caring for the vulnerable
  • spend time outdoors, including for exercise, in groups greater than six people - subject to limited exceptions. You should continue to practise social distancing with anyone from outside your household, including while playing sport
  • stay overnight away from home - subject to limited exceptions, including for work, funerals or avoiding harm
  • incite others to commit one of the above offences, for example by inviting people to a party
  • threaten others with infection by coronavirus, for example by coughing or spitting in their direction
It is an offence to breach these restrictions and the police and local authorities have the powers to enforce the requirements."
 

DJE

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Joined
21 Jun 2004
Messages
6,869
Location
Fareham
See Governemnt guidleines published 31st May: Staying alert and safe (social distancing)

From Section 2:

"It is important that everyone continues to act responsibly in public places, as the large majority have done to date. The infection rate will increase if people begin to break the rules. It will remain prohibited in law for people to:

  • visit friends and family inside their homes or spend time indoors with anyone you do not live with - subject to limited exceptions, for example, for work, providing emergency assistance or caring for the vulnerable
  • spend time outdoors, including for exercise, in groups greater than six people - subject to limited exceptions. You should continue to practise social distancing with anyone from outside your household, including while playing sport
  • stay overnight away from home - subject to limited exceptions, including for work, funerals or avoiding harm
  • incite others to commit one of the above offences, for example by inviting people to a party
  • threaten others with infection by coronavirus, for example by coughing or spitting in their direction
It is an offence to breach these restrictions and the police and local authorities have the powers to enforce the requirements."
Mistakes in the guidelines again. It can't remain prohibited in law to stay overnight away from home; that will become prohibited once today's amendments are in force. Local Authorities do not have powers to enforce the movement restrictions; only the police or PCSOs can do that.
 

Kivu G

New member
Joined
13 Aug 2018
Messages
3
I had this in an email from Port Bannatyne marina on Friday: "Toilets are open although will be closed periodically during the day for cleaning"
Hi Jumbleduck, could you PM me as if possible, I'd like to ask you about Port Bannatyne marina . Sorry, as a new member here it seems I either don't have rights to PM or (far more likely) am failing the technological competence test. Thanks
 
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