Swinging moorings....overnight stays.

[Stemar]

I suspect those were cases where they deliberately coughed over someone - a disgusting thing to do - which is now an offence. My recommendation was to stiffle a cough which is not illegal.

My recollection is that he wanted a few days off from a job at a fast food place, so he claimed to have CV, and provoked a major cleanup (possibly no bad thing in a fast food place!) and a bit of a panic in the local community. The one in the Wail was similar, but she worked in a bank.

 

[oldharry]

Instead of just banning sleeping aboard they should explain the science.
Sleeping in confined spaces with limited ventilation hugely increases the risk of transmission.

So I'm more likely to pass it to SWMBO sleeping in separate bunks in the boat than in the double bed at home? As long as you are with members of your own household it isnt really a issue. I agree its a totally different matter if you are sailing with people you dont live with. I'm not sure that I will want to take non family members with me even just day-tripping when I finally get my boat launched.

 

[Koeketiene]

Instead of just banning sleeping aboard they should explain the science.
Sleeping with others in confined spaces with limited ventilation hugely increases the risk of transmission.

What difference does it make whether I sleep with my wife on the boat or in our bedroom?

 

[bedouin]

Instead of just banning sleeping aboard they should explain the science.
Sleeping with others in confined spaces with limited ventilation hugely increases the risk of transmission.

They gave up on trying to minimise the risk of transfer between members of the same household long ago, Probably because it is virtually impossible to isolate oneself within most households.

 

[chubby]

The problem is in blanket advice: the authorities may want to minimize second home owners so we are caught up in that, also marinas and harbours are uncertain about how to make facilities safe!

I have had a few nights away at anchor in Totland bay, Newtown and off Pilsey island and several others boats similarly resting and widely socially distanced.

Full marks to Lymington where short stay is allowed although the ice cream shops are shut: the HM launch arrived and offered a contactless card reader on a 2 metre long selfie stick!!!! well nearly 2 m long

 

[graham]

We fully intend to go cruising this summer if marinas will allow us in or not. My comment about confined space is certainly valid. Advice is ventilate your home as much as possible to reduce the concentration of virus someone may be unknowingly breathing out. Not such a problem with the weather were getting now.

 

[Seven Spades]

Instead of just banning sleeping aboard they should explain the science.
Sleeping with others in confined spaces with limited ventilation hugely increases the risk of transmission.

Graham as you are only allowed to go boating with members of your household that risk does not apply.

 

[graham]

The risk certainly does aplly. The virus doesn't ask your name and address .Multiple people in a confined space are at greater risk

 

[Stemar]

You seem to be missing the fact that "members of your household" are probably already "sleeping with others in confined spaces with limited ventilation". Opening the windows won't make a difference if you're sharing a bed.

A bit like the checkout girl in a shop recently who got herself in a total twist because Milady was helping me pack our shopping and packed her off to the car, completely missing the fact that in the vast majority of cases, if Milord has CV, Milady does too, and vice versa. I was tempted to start coughing (not on her, just coughing), but she was genuinely scared so, no.

 

[graham]

You were tempted to cough close to a shop worker because she asked you to comply with the instructions put in place for her safety.Amazing.

 

[Baroudeur]

...but if the harbour master is poncing around like nelson...

? ?

 

[ashtead]

Plenty of family boats now overnighting but all correctly displaying their fishing rods and sleeping in the bivouacs on deck. Whole thing lacks logic as anchoring in Newtown creek overnight seems permitted. I was slightly puzzled as well by QHM as I'm sure the first notice opening the harbours made no mention of not staying on board ( one rule for livabords and fisherman and one for everyone else) .

 

[nicho]

Plenty of family boats now overnighting but all correctly displaying their fishing rods and sleeping in the bivouacs on deck. Whole thing lacks logic as anchoring in Newtown creek overnight seems permitted. I was slightly puzzled as well by QHM as I'm sure the first notice opening the harbours made no mention of not staying on board ( one rule for livabords and fisherman and one for everyone else) .

Problem we are wrestling with is that government rules state you cannot sleep overnight away from your main residence, you must return home. Neither can you stay overnight in a holiday home, so I suppose you could argue a boat is not a second or holiday home? The killer seems to be that you must return home to sleep.

 

[bedouin]

Problem we are wrestling with is that government rules state you cannot sleep overnight away from your main residence, you must return home. Neither can you stay overnight in a holiday home, so I suppose you could argue a boat is not a second or holiday home? The killer seems to be that you must return home to sleep.

No the regulations don't state that - they were going to but it got taken out at the last minute. So you can stay out overnight if it is an integral part of a legitimate leisure activity. For example the Canal and Waterways Trust (or whatever) say it is fine to sleep on your boat on your own moorings; as the the night-fisher lobby.

You are being taken in by the army of petty hitlers who love nothing more than telling you what they wish the regulations had said and then say they are the "spirit of the regulations"

But you cannot visit a holiday home at all - not even for the day - unless you are using the reason of essential maintenance or preparing it for sale/rental.

 

[nicho]

No the regulations don't state that - they were going to but it got taken out at the last minute. So you can stay out overnight if it is an integral part of a legitimate leisure activity. For example the Canal and Waterways Trust (or whatever) say it is fine to sleep on your boat on your own moorings; as the the night-fisher lobby.

You are being taken in by the army of petty hitlers who love nothing more than telling you what they wish the regulations had said and then say they are the "spirit of the regulations"

But you cannot visit a holiday home at all - not even for the day - unless you are using the reason of essential maintenance or preparing it for sale/rental.

Thanks for the clarification. However, government guidance paper dated 29th May, 1.1 clearly states that you cannot stay away from your home overnight, “except for a limited set of circumstances such as for work purposes“, so muddying the water somewhat. Our marina guidance sort of hints that it is OK to stay on board, saying you must return home if you display any symptoms. Confused? You will be......

 

[bedouin]

Thanks for the clarification. However, government guidance paper dated 29th May, 1.1 clearly states that you cannot stay away from your home overnight, “except for a limited set of circumstances such as for work purposes“, so muddying the water somewhat. Our marina guidance sort of hints that it is OK to stay on board, saying you must return home if you display any symptoms. Confused? You will be......

Confused we certainly are!

The regulations are complex, the guidance attempts to simplify that but in doing so omits some of the nuances that are deliberately present in the regulations.

The latest set of guidance does seem to suggest that you cannot stay out overnight but we know that is is permitted in certain circumstances. Night fishing being the example we all quote but as mentioned above others have advised staying on your boat is within the rules.

Interesting this latest guidance no longer includes the specific banning on going to a second home, nor for that matter caravans etc although I believe that is still banned.

A marina is unlikely to stop berthholders staying on board. It is not up to them to interpret the regulations and to prevent you doing something that isn't explicitly banned in the regulations could open them up to a lot of problems (like breach of contract and claims for refunds). Much better for them to keep out of it and leave it up to individuals.

But let's not forget the purpose of the regulations is to prevent the spread of the virus. If staying on your boat increases the risk then you should think very carefully before doing so. If not then it would seem fine.

 

[DJE]

It seems to me that the regulations are quite simple in comparison to the mass of advice and guidance which has sprung up around them.

"Restrictions on movement

6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave [F1or be outside of] the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
........................
to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing—"

Nothing in there about staying overnight or otherwise. What am I missing?


The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020

 

[bedouin]

It seems to me that the regulations are quite simple in comparison to the mass of advice and guidance which has sprung up around them.

"Restrictions on movement

6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave [F1or be outside of] the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
........................
to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing—"

Nothing in there about staying overnight or otherwise. What am I missing?


The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020

Nothing in there prohibits staying out over night provided that you have a good reason for being outside. So overnight fishing, hiking, sailing etc are all permitted (no doubt about that). So the only question is whether when sleeping on the boat you are still carrying on an open air recreation but in UK law it everything is permitted unless it is explicitly prohibited and nothing in there to say you can't so you (probably) can.

 

[capnsensible]

Are UK marinas opening up heads and bathrooms?

Otherwise all those people staying on board and taking a dump cant be helping the ambience?

 

[chrisD]

I think that’s the right analysis. And the definition of public open space explicitly includes places like Newtown Creek as per S16(2) of the Countryside Act 1968.

So if the main purpose of the trip is open air recreation, ie sailing, pottering about in the dinghy, going ashore for walks etc, sleeping on board is incidental. Not clear to me why organisations like the Chichester Harbour Commission are taking a different view. It is correct that until the law was amended by SI 500 to allow access to open spaces, travelling to a second home was not a reasonable excuse for being away from the place where one is living. But the reasonable excuses are cumulative, and there is no reason to restrict the interpretation of SI 500 Reg 2 (3) (a) (iii) by referring to the fact that visiting a second home was not permitted as a reasonable excuse under Regulation 6 of the earlier SI 350 regulations.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.