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Susie Goodall chats about GGR & monster waves -

zoidberg

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Aye. Interesting she finally confirmed that her Jordan Series Drogue - the subject of much informed and uninformed speculation both here and in other boaty forums - snapped where a double figure-of-eight knot had been tied in the leader section, introducing a significant weakness. Not part of Don Jordan's original spec.

There was also the question of the drogue's specification ( rope strength ) being related to the builders' empty weight of the boat, and not the actual laden weight......

Taking those significant factors together, the failure is less of a surprise than at first hearing.
 

GHA

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Aye. Interesting she finally confirmed that her Jordan Series Drogue - the subject of much informed and uninformed speculation both here and in other boaty forums - snapped where a double figure-of-eight knot had been tied in the leader section, introducing a significant weakness. Not part of Don Jordan's original spec.

There was also the question of the drogue's specification ( rope strength ) being related to the builders' empty weight of the boat, and not the actual laden weight......

Taking those significant factors together, the failure is less of a surprise than at first hearing.
Been discussed already on morganscloud but behind a paywall. Oceancraft had changed to spiced eyes by then anyway from memory.

Think the thing is with JSD et al, the only real extreme tests happen in the likes of the southern ocean and so it's an extremely small sample size to flag up any potential design improvements.

Some girl Susie though!!!
 

scruff

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The 'On the wind' podcast is one of my regulars I listen too on my dog walks - it's very good and well worth a browse through the archive.
 

BlowingOldBoots

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Excellent and thanks for posting.

The Monitor wind vane came in for a bit of a bashing pretty soon after people started to analyse the storm fallout, yet the weak link did exactly what it was supposed to do, fail when subject to excessive side loads. The JSD takeaways for me is that the device worked in stabilising the boat in high winds and heavy cross seas but don't use knots anywhere. The other interesting thing is the silence before the carnage starts and the time it took to cut away the rig, that a hacksaw worked even in those severe conditions and confused seas. The effects of coldness were fascinating, feeling warm in the cold sea, hacksawing into her hand, a desire to stay in her bed when the bilge alarm sounded after she had pumped the water level down.

Incredible feats and an incredible person to face these situations and deal with them.
 

Rappey

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DHL starlight leaving for the start of the golden globe.
Studio_20200630_170556.jpg
 

capnsensible

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I found the first bit fascinating to, regarding Cuba. If the whole Doombug thing had been about 3 or 4 weeks later, I would have been in Guatemala trying to figure out how to get enough victuals, water and diesel to get to the uk in a oner.

An interesting challenge.

What a lady though. Max respect.
 

zoidberg

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And 'Grannie Jean' Socrates is wandering around Western Australia in a mobo caravan. She also posts on Facebook about her encounters.
 

zoidberg

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Been discussed already on morganscloud but behind a paywall. Oceancraft had changed to spiced eyes by then anyway from memory. Think the thing is with JSD et al, the only real extreme tests happen in the likes of the southern ocean and so it's an extremely small sample size to flag up any potential design improvements. Some girl Susie though!!!
Several commented on the AAC site in the days following Susie's 'event', with photos of her JSD kit being rolled out on a pontoon prior to departure for SD'O. The culprit 'double figure-of-eight' was visible there/then and received comment/discussion.... but it was only recently that Susie confirmed publicly that's where the rig broke.

Also, the rope diameter used was based on the expected boat weight/displacement, which was at the upper end of one of Don Jordan's categories.... but the weight used was the DRY SHIP builders' published weight, not the laden displacement. It should have been rather heavier, stronger rope....

SG remains reluctant to suggest any inadequacy in what was carried and used. Many of the 'extremely small sample size' of real users - but not all - have revised their ideas of what's 'strong enough'.

It is worth reminding oneself that Don Jordan's work was initiated following his reading of the 'Fastnet 79 Report' and of how many otherwise satisfactory craft had been knocked down/rolled by breaking seas. Wasn't it research at So'ton University/Warsash Institute that demonstrated conclusively that 'a breaking sea of 60% of a beam-on boat's width WOULD capsize it, every time'.......

Do the simple arithmetic for YOUR boat, and tell me you don't get breaking seas of that size in the Western Approaches/Celtic Sea.......

RogerTaylor/'MingMing' is solidly on record as declaring he 'wouldn't go to sea without one'.


 

GHA

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SG remains reluctant to suggest any inadequacy in what was carried and used. Many of the 'extremely small sample size' of real users - but not all - have revised their ideas of what's 'strong enough'.
Any links for either of those? Doesn't sound familiar, but would be interesting to have a look at.
Doesn't sound very clever working out yourself " what's 'strong enough" though. ...
The Don Jordan sizing calcs already come up with massive loads for the attachment points to cope with a once in a lifetime wave, if you can pick up the boat just from the bridle & give it a good shake then it's probably not far out ;)
 

capnsensible

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Laura Dekker has been uploading her circumnavigation to youtube recently.
I was reading her book on passage between the Galápagos and French Polynesia and discovered that she did it quicker than I did on a bigger yacht with my two crew. 😀😀
 

Rappey

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One of the youtube vids shows her leaving with others yachts to round the Cape of good hope, weather gets bad and most yachts turn back.
She thinks it's OK and keeps going.
She arrives at her destination to learn she had just sailed through one of the worst storms they have had.
 

zoidberg

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Doesn't sound very clever working out yourself " what's 'strong enough" though. ...
The Don Jordan sizing calcs already come up with massive loads for the attachment points to cope with a once in a lifetime wave, if you can pick up the boat just from the bridle & give it a good shake then it's probably not far out ;)

Donald Jordan's original publication - actually, a US Coastguard publication - is found here. JSD Paper....
It is appropriate to read , consider and digest VERY FULLY. That may take more than a few readings. For example, the paper assumes a maximum breaking wave crest velocity of about 39 ft/sec...



Jordan was concerned to use assumptions around the size/speed of breaking waves thought typical of Fastnet-type storms. Nowhere does he suggest his assumptions are appropriate for fully-developed Southern Ocean winter storms. Goodall mentions, in her podcast, that the "rigging was shrieking.... it then went very quiet", and she momentarily wondered if someone "had switched off the wind". It is conjectured that she was briefly in the trough of a gigantic composite breaking wave, sufficiently deep to stifle the wind. We already know from satellite radar that such waves exist, are much more common than previous modelling assumptions had predicted, and they are associated with the weather disturbances such as experienced by Goodall, Van Den Heede and other in the Southern Ocean.

It is not unlikely that she - and they - experienced transient towline loads far in excess of Don Jordan's predictions of wave crest velocity for the lesser storms of the Celtic Sea and North Atlantic in summer.




Don Jordan's recommendations were made on what he considered a range of reasonable assumptions, using the best rope then available to him - double braid nylon.





What specification/diameter of nylon rope was used on DHL Starlight? What was the actual displacement of DHL Starlight when the ultimate test came?

Is there now an argument for carrying a JSD with towline made of UHDPE line, and attachment points on the quarters, capable of withstanding loads not less than the total laden displacement of the vessel?
 

zoidberg

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I just had some 12-strand single braid rope samples from Island Ropes, in Ledbury, which are interesting.

The 10mm stuff is £1.52 per metre, with nominal 8,000kgf min break load
The 8mm stuff is £1.00 per metre, with nominal 5,000kgf min break load

'To put money where mouth is', and just to follow up a little, I've purchased some 10mm HDPE single braid, for this purpose. Steve Hayman is The Man there.....
 

Poey50

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I bought Acera Amundsen rope for our JSD including the bridles. Ours is a 32 footer so 8mm was sufficient for strength. Very light and small volume for storage. There are various Scandinavian suppliers which make it for the fishing industry so it doesn't carry the usual marine premium. Easy to attached the cones which were made by Ocean Brake. With HDPE you do need to fix in stopper knots to give the recovery line something to bite agains on the slippery single braid. Details of the stopper knots on the Morgan's Cloud site. ACERA AMUNDSEN - Wilhelmsen
 
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