Suitable Brands (37+ft) for cruising both Med and inland waterways?

[texanaust]

We are looking into purchasing a motor cruiser that is comfortable in the Mediterranean Sea but can also navigate the canal systems of France, Netherlands, etc. We don't need access to the entire canal system if it would compromise on space and Med capabilities, but would like to explore. Two engines are a must, preferably between 40-50ft. Can any of the Fairline, Sealine, Princess flybridge cruisers fit under the bridges? Can owners modify the radar arches of these vessels to accommodate the inland waterways? What models do you recommend?

We are coming from Australia, so although we have boating experience, our knowledge of the canal systems and what is or is not possible is very limited. Thank you in advance

 

[Portofino]

You see a few Dutch type steel cruisers around that size in Med marinas .Linsen being typically one example, but there are others .Steel for lack hassle bumping in locks .They are low superstructure s have fold down masts , radar arches …..often electronic and other fold down paraphernalia.

You could coast hop in fair weather I guess and they sip fuel relative to high speed planing boats .They roll a lot in any big seas and indeed moderate sea states as they have flatter bottoms and small displacement speed engines .They are built for very low speeds of inland waters and low bridges .

What they lack for the Med is the obvious outside space for tables and sun lounging as they basically were penned for N Eu weather all year round so major on inside accommodation.

Ideal scenario is split it .
Buy a EU “Dutch “ steel inland water ways boat and do the inland bit sail it eventually down to Marseille where the Rhone enters the Med then sell it .Buy a proper Med spec boat depending on budget re fuel a fast planing boat so you can plan around the weather .As pretty as it looks in the summer for serious long distance cruising ie wind up in Greek waters you are gonna need something more comfortable in bigger seas , as you need to sail through waves often .
Obviously with all the time in the world no time pressure then you sit tight in a flat bottomed Dutch inland waterways boat while the waves drop .
But you won’t get as far see as much as you would if you were in a fast planing sea boat .Or spend as much on fuel .

 

[oldgit]

Your budget will probably be the critical factor overriding all else in choice of boat.
Lots of pages online of info on air drafts and water depth restrictions on the non tidal canals and the various pros and cons of the various routes on offer.
Also details of the compulsory competence certificates and licencing requirements required including costs.
Do know of two couples who have done the channel to "Med" trip, one in 30ft boat and another in a 40 ft boat.
Both skippers hinted that a generator would have made life a lot easier.
Both boats were capable of offering the compact dimensions required for the trip through the canal network but also with decent turn of speed and seakeeping to get them across the channel from UK.
Anything from £50K to £500.000 might do the trick.

 

[texanaust]

Your budget will probably be the critical factor overriding all else in choice of boat.
Lots of pages online of info on air drafts and water depth restrictions on the non tidal canals and the various pros and cons of the various routes on offer.
Also details of the compulsory competence certificates and licencing requirements required including costs.
Do know of two couples who have done the channel to "Med" trip, one in 30ft boat and another in a 40 ft boat.
Both skippers hinted that a generator would have made life a lot easier.
Both boats were capable of offering the compact dimensions required for the trip through the canal network but also with decent turn of speed and seakeeping to get them across the channel from UK.
Anything from £50K to £500.000 might do the trick.

Our budget is approx Euros $200,000. I've read a little bit about air drafts but was hoping for some 'real-life' experiences with production Med spec boats going up the canals. I totally understand getting a barge or Dutch steel cruiser for canals would probably be the smarter option, but I've seen a lot of Med type cruisers parked very close to canals and have wondered if they venture up them often?

Broom boats have been mentioned as one option for canal/Med motoring but there are only a handful available and they seem to sell as soon as they are listed.

 

[ebbanflo]

Our aim in the next 5 years is to sail through Europe on canals and/or rivers to the Black sea and Med, and return via the Atlantic coast. With an airdraft of 13' or less and beam of 16' or less there are quite a few route options. We are now on our third boat, and this one fits the measurements above, and will be the one we use - a Broom 450 OS.

 

[Ferris]

If you like Broom try Atlantic yachts, similar in layout but probably more modern interiors. Also tend to have a planing hull like the offshore brooms.

Atlantic 42 Used Boat for Sale 2002 | TheYachtMarket

However I echo what has been said. I would buy a inland cruiser for the canals, sell that and then buy a med style MY.

 

[Tranona]

Our budget is approx Euros $200,000. I've read a little bit about air drafts but was hoping for some 'real-life' experiences with production Med spec boats going up the canals. I totally understand getting a barge or Dutch steel cruiser for canals would probably be the smarter option, but I've seen a lot of Med type cruisers parked very close to canals and have wondered if they venture up them often?

Broom boats have been mentioned as one option for canal/Med motoring but there are only a handful available and they seem to sell as soon as they are listed.

While you will be able to access some of the southern parts of the French system such as the Rhone, it is not practical to take the sort of boat you are looking at north through the shallow canal system. Twin screw planing boats are really not suitable for the canals, not just the airdraft, but not only are powerful diesels wasted but the propellers are very vulnerable. Many of the canals may have a reasonable nominal depth, the sides are often shallow making it difficult to get close to the bank. I expect you have seen what modern canal boats are like - very different from a Princess, Fairline etc.

 

[ebbanflo]

As Ferris has said the Atlantic (which was made in 38, 40, 42, 444 and 460 sizes ) would be an option as would the Westwood A38 , A39 or the Haines400. Slightly off piste would be the last of the Trader 42's (with lowering radar arch). Our (very off piste) second choice was a Hardy Commodore 42. It has a lowering mast, and is as comfortable at 6 knots as 24 knots. It has a great sea boat reputation.

 

[Alicatt]

There is also the Tomasz Tristan 40 BC which is around your price range, 130pk Volvo Penta, sleeps 4 in 2 double cabins

Thomasz-Tristan-40- - Sterkenburg Yachting

 

[texanaust]

While you will be able to access some of the southern parts of the French system such as the Rhone, it is not practical to take the sort of boat you are looking at north through the shallow canal system. Twin screw planing boats are really not suitable for the canals, not just the airdraft, but not only are powerful diesels wasted but the propellers are very vulnerable. Many of the canals may have a reasonable nominal depth, the sides are often shallow making it difficult to get close to the bank. I expect you have seen what modern canal boats are like - very different from a Princess, Fairline etc.

Getting close to the bank with twin screws is an issue that I had not thought of. I suppose you could just have that engine in neutral or off when coming alongside. Are the canal bottoms fairly rocky?

If I purchased a Med boat first, how far up the Rhone do you think I could get if I just wanted to get a taste of the canal system?

 

[Alicatt]

Some are, one we were on in Holland was quite shallow and the 6.5m sloop we were on the rudder would touch the rocks on the bottom when too many people were at the stern of the boat. The main channels were 2m and even some of the lochs were only waist deep out of the channel.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

If I purchased a Med boat first, how far up the Rhone do you think I could get if I just wanted to get a taste of the canal system?

Most of the Rhone / Soane wouldn't give you much taste of the canals as it a great big wide river. If there's been much rain or snow melt, you might also be convinced that two powerful engines to buck the currrent are the way to go!

For many people the joys of the European canals are the older ones that haven't been 'upgraded' for modern commercial traffic. For those there's no escaping that less airdraft, less water draft and single protected engine gives you more options.

It all depends on what your priorities are: a classic Med power boat would allow a full exploration of the Eastern Med (Greece, Turkey) before a trip through the Black Sea, up the Danube and down the Rhine. That would allow you to see a lot Europe! Alternatively some thing like a Linsen ( Linssen Yachts - Grand Sturdy 34.9 AC | 2728 ) would allow you to explore a lot of the Canals (but not quite all) and still have a displacement boat capable of exploring the Western Med after you emerge from the Rhone at sailboat speeds, which lots of people find acceptable.

Either way your itinerary isn't just boat dependent. You have to work with the weather - there's no where that is shorts and tea shirt cruising year round.

 

[oldgit]

Getting close to the bank with twin screws is an issue that I had not thought of. I suppose you could just have that engine in neutral or off when coming alongside. Are the canal bottoms fairly rocky?

If I purchased a Med boat first, how far up the Rhone do you think I could get if I just wanted to get a taste of the canal system?

The River Thames is very similar to many of the smaller canals, about 150 kilometers of navigable waterway and about 8000 boats of all types registered to use it.
Many low bridges on the non tidal Thames such as @ Cookham 3.9m and Windsor @ 4m and depths maintained from around 1.7M at Teddington to 1.2 m on upper reaches. (Honest)
The majority of boats are located in the middle section of the navigation where the EA suggest that 1.3 m is the norm.
Although many boats are designed specifically for non tidal use ie. low powered, single screw and with keel of some sort, a majority of larger boats being used there are twin screw craft mainly designed to function on tidal waters, they do seem to manage mooring on the rocky bottom of the Thames without to many problems.
Due to the short distances between locks and the number of locks needing to to transited a twin screw boat might be mooring up several times a day.
However yours truly has come a cropper more than once. .

 

[Greg2]

Maximum air draft for the route through the canals to the Med is said to be 3.5m and it has been done successfully by a number boats with a flybridge, planing hull and twin screws. Getting a boat capable of meeting the height restriction is obviously key and being careful with props close to banks is important but like most things it can be managed. A stern thruster would be of benefit as the back end can be moved towards or away from the bank to ensure that the screws are in deeper water before putting the engines in gear. On a trip to the Thames in a Broom 41 (twin screw with a planing hull) we had one or two issues with the innermost prop hitting bottom in some mooring spots but we got round it by creating enough momentum to get us in and clicking out of gear when going alongside and using the outboard engine slow ahead to kick the stern out when leaving a mooring.

Brooms (we have had two) were designed specifically for sea passage and the inland waterways of Europe and others that have been mentioned such as Atlantic and Haines have similar attributes. They are excellent boats in terms of capability and build quality but outside space varies depending upon model. Dutch steel boats will roll in a seaway but can still be very capable sea boats and I wouldn’t write them off as an option.

Our Hardy is hardly an ideal Med boat but when we bought it meeting the 3.5m height limit was a factor because we might do it one day. Like many Brooms she has a semi-displacement hull with a keel that offers some protection for the twin props.

The thing with boats is that they are all a compromise and will be excellent for some things and not so good for others, but importantly, most will do most things. So, having met essential criteria such as air draft, it comes down to personal preference in the end.

 

[NBs]

Hi, I think the speed limit when switching channels can be poison to a large marine diesel engine without a common rail.

The engine is constantly running at low loads and if it is not a common rail, then the carbon valve body, piston rings and more, in addition to glazing and overflow in the cylinder can form a nasty problem.

The common rail survives a low load cruise much better because it can optimally adjust the fuel and the engine runs cleaner.

Another idea is a single engine long keel where the propeller is sheltered better vs. twins. Grounding is not a slippery risk, the channel can swim submerged in trees or branches or any stuff, the shaft should also protect the rope cutter.

A boat is often a compromise unless you order a new one off the boat tailored to you, so keep your mind open when researching the market and finding you a boat.

good luck and smooth waters

NBs

 

[oldgit]

Hi, I think the speed limit when switching channels can be poison to a large marine diesel engine without a common rail.
The engine is constantly running at low loads and if it is not a common rail, then the carbon valve body, piston rings and more, in addition to glazing and overflow in the cylinder can form a nasty problem.
The common rail survives a low load cruise much better because it can optimally adjust the fuel and the engine runs cleaner.
NBs

Urban Myth ?
A case of any diesel engine big or otherwise being rendered unusable due to constant use at low power is hard to find.
Boating folk are not usually backward in coming forward to complain about stuff of this nature.
Must be hundreds if not thousands of boats on the Thames and on other non tidal inland waterways with several hundred horse power on tap ,all restricted to no more than tickover 8KPH for most of their lives.
Stuff that really kills boat engines........mostly neglect and lack of use .

 

[Alicatt]

Listening to someone that took a sailboat up the Rhone eventually on to Holland and Friesland they said that their little engine struggled against the current and at times had to lay up and wait for the flow to reduce a little to be able to make headway, the water was high and they had to carefully pick their way under some of the bridges.