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Studland - RYA Response

Concerto

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16 Jul 2014
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Sail on the Medway, Kent from Chatham Maritime Mar
What a shame the RYA's Planning and Environmental Officer has accepted that seagrass and eelgrass are the same type of plant and swallowed MMO's opinion about seagrass. How can they ignore all the data on BORG's web site which is more comprehensive than that supplied by so called "experts" in the MMO and NE.
 

mainsail1

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Returned to South Coast from West Coast of Scotlan
Unfortunately the RYA start from the position of acceptance that anchoring is doing appreciable damage to the eelgrass. Perhaps they should provide evidence? I used to anchor in Studland Bay with a CQR anchor which did drag sometimes and may have caused some damage. However over the last 4 or 5 years I have used a Manson Supreme and have had no dragging incidents. I believe modern anchors cause minimal damage to the eelgrass and this has never been taken into account.
 

Tranona

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10 Nov 2007
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The key thing that the consos won't accept is that even if there is damage from anchoring the grass grows again quickly. This is a characteristic of eel grass as opposed to the fragile seagrass, and is central to the argument. But as oldharry has said many times, the lack of any "published/expert" research or opinion means NE does not accept this - even though all the local observational evidence confirms this to be the case.
 

Concerto

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The key thing that the consos won't accept is that even if there is damage from anchoring the grass grows again quickly. This is a characteristic of eel grass as opposed to the fragile seagrass, and is central to the argument. But as oldharry has said many times, the lack of any "published/expert" research or opinion means NE does not accept this - even though all the local observational evidence confirms this to be the case.
So we sailors have to suffer constraints on anchoring put in place by so called experts, with no real knowledge of boats, who rely on other so called experts research. As nothing is published, they conclude there is a problem that must be solved. Oldharry has also mentioned that in the early 1930's the eelgrass in most of Europe was almost wiped out by a disease and some research was published in the mid 1930's - this is only a survey by a few students under the direction of a naturalist lecturer and did a quick survey of Studland. Photographic evidence is not acceptable, even though this goes back over 60 years. Talk about blinkered vision by MMO and NE.
 

rotrax

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South Oxon, Littlehampton and Wellington, NZ.
Unfortunately the RYA start from the position of acceptance that anchoring is doing appreciable damage to the eelgrass. Perhaps they should provide evidence? I used to anchor in Studland Bay with a CQR anchor which did drag sometimes and may have caused some damage. However over the last 4 or 5 years I have used a Manson Supreme and have had no dragging incidents. I believe modern anchors cause minimal damage to the eelgrass and this has never been taken into account.



Dragging is not seen to be the problem. It is the chain scouring circles in the eelgrass as the Tide/wind changes.

Despite this, the eelgrass appears to thrive on the treatment as the areas are increasing.
 

Tranona

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Exactly. I came to that conclusion over 10 years ago when I first had dealings with NGM and particularly Ken Collins who was the leader of the blind in respect of eel/sea grass and Studland. His academic career was based on his so called studies and difficult for such people to accept there might be an alternate explanation. So everything that does not fit their world view gets rejected, no matter how much evidence you produce. They got there first and occupied the moral high ground.
 

penfold

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25 Aug 2003
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That's not moral high ground, it's an ivory tower; the enviroloons should be getting angry about all the heffalumps that were slaughtered to build it.
 

oldharry

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North from the Nab about 10 miles
Unfortunately the RYA start from the position of acceptance that anchoring is doing appreciable damage to the eelgrass. Perhaps they should provide evidence? I used to anchor in Studland Bay with a CQR anchor which did drag sometimes and may have caused some damage. However over the last 4 or 5 years I have used a Manson Supreme and have had no dragging incidents. I believe modern anchors cause minimal damage to the eelgrass and this has never been taken into account.
Yes this is a fundamental shift of attitude by the RYA in very recent years. I worked quite closely with them on these issues in 2010 - 2015 leading to the production fo the first 'Anchoring with care' leaflet, the latest version of which has been so diluted down as to be pretty well useless. At that point their view was that anchoring caused at worse minor disturbance and would quote the evidence BORG listed in support of that view. They fully endorsed and supported BORG's view and stand. Nowadays all I get is a polite but dismissive 'thank you for your views'.
 

eddystone

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18 Aug 2013
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SW Leicestershire
Think RYA position will be carefully calibrated so as to a) not appear to be dangerously out of line with "correct thinking" (that sounds very Chinese doesn't it!) in the corridors of government, b) avoid creating any hostility to RYA in government/quasi government bodies when it comes to handing out grants, especially Olympic funding, c) "appear" to represent its members, of which cruising yachties, particularly those that venture outside the marina to marina bus routes, are a minority. I don't see RYA going out on a limb over Studland. I needed to be a member for many years as my daughter was going through the RYA training squad system, but I'm not so sure now.
 

mainsail1

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For the first time in 30 years I am starting to think the RYA does not represent my views and has become a "sheep" of an organisation following the politics of the day. There were a couple of other things they have done over the last two or three years that made me start to wonder.
Maybe the time has come to stop my standing order?
 

dunedin

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3 Feb 2004
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Boat (now back in) the Clyde
So eddystone and mainsail1 have you emailed the RYA (eg Stuart Carruthers) to express your views?
They can only represent their members if their members inform them of their views.

And I am absolutely certain that the RYA Cruising team’s response to Studland is not influenced by “Olympic funding”, as people wrongly but repeatedly state, which comes through very different routes.
 

RobbieW

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24 Jun 2007
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On land for now
So eddystone and mainsail1 have you emailed the RYA (eg Stuart Carruthers) to express your views?
They can only represent their members if their members inform them of their views.

And I am absolutely certain that the RYA Cruising team’s response to Studland is not influenced by “Olympic funding”, as people wrongly but repeatedly state, which comes through very different routes.
Go to the top 🙂 There's a letter I wrote to Sarah Treseder with email address on another thread. Too difficult to find and paste a link using the mobile but not hard to find on a full fat device
 

mainsail1

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Returned to South Coast from West Coast of Scotlan
So eddystone and mainsail1 have you emailed the RYA (eg Stuart Carruthers) to express your views?
They can only represent their members if their members inform them of their views.

And I am absolutely certain that the RYA Cruising team’s response to Studland is not influenced by “Olympic funding”, as people wrongly but repeatedly state, which comes through very different routes.
Yes, I have been in contact with Stuart on a number of occasions over the last couple of years. I actually gave up as his replies left me feeling that I was not getting anywhere.
 

eddystone

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SW Leicestershire
So eddystone and mainsail1 have you emailed the RYA (eg Stuart Carruthers) to express your views?
They can only represent their members if their members inform them of their views.

And I am absolutely certain that the RYA Cruising team’s response to Studland is not influenced by “Olympic funding”, as people wrongly but repeatedly state, which comes through very different routes.
Yes I will tonight
 

mainsail1

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Returned to South Coast from West Coast of Scotlan
OK. I have written to the RYA as follows:

I have read your latest press release on the proposed restrictions on yachts in Studland Bay. I had hoped for a more vigorous defence of the rights of RYA members.

There is no evidence that anchoring has been a problem with regards to the eelgrass in the Bay or the seahorses and yet you have fallen for the line of pressure groups without proper investigation.

If you fail to defend the rights of RYA members at Studland Bay it will be thin end of a very large wedge throughout the coastal areas of the UK. Instead of meekly going along with the Government line I believe you should be gathering evidence and fighting these proposals tooth and nail. Mostly they are based on flawed evidence and just pressure group opinion.

I pay my annual subscription for robust defence of our freedoms as sailors unless there is clear and conclusive evidence to the contrary.

Best wishes,
 

Blue Sunray

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20 Jul 2015
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Think RYA position will be carefully calibrated so as to a) not appear to be dangerously out of line with "correct thinking" (that sounds very Chinese doesn't it!) in the corridors of government, b) avoid creating any hostility to RYA in government/quasi government bodies when it comes to handing out grants, especially Olympic funding, c) "appear" to represent its members, of which cruising yachties, particularly those that venture outside the marina to marina bus routes, are a minority. I don't see RYA going out on a limb over Studland. I needed to be a member for many years as my daughter was going through the RYA training squad system, but I'm not so sure now.
b) is obviously a very strong driver here (though MCA certification delegations are probably even more on their minds as Olympic funding). I have always had my suspicions but their (in)action on this matter has removed any doubt in my mind that they regard their 'cruising' membership as an irrelevance other than as customers for their YM etc scheme.

As a member I emailed them a couple of weeks expressing my concerns on Studland and asking what they were doing, I haven't had so much as an acknowledgement.
 
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