Studland Consultation Consultation - we need to get proposals amended this Thursday

oldharry

Well-known member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
9,832
Location
North from the Nab about 10 miles
Visit site
MMO have proposed we should only anchor at the N End of Studland off Knoll Beach: dangerously exposed, shallow, and far too far from amenities for getting the kids ashore for a run! If they apply this rigidly, the Bay WILL be effectively closed to us this Summer

Time is running out. Stakeholders have until 18th April to get this changed.

You need to sign up for the Public zoom meeting on Thursday where you can find out what they propose, and if you disagree (and any experienced yachtsman who knows the Bay, will) have what looks like your last chance to say so!

Please register in advance for this public open event by clicking on the link below:
https://zoom.us/.../tJAscu6sqDMoG9EemTQvLOfJJ3_oME0UOWR9

After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the Zoom event.

See www.dorsetcoasthaveyoursay.co.uk for further details.
 

NDG

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2002
Messages
374
Location
Chi
Visit site
These appear to be the options being proposed which they are seeking views on. Looks like option 1 is off the table. I thought there already is a voluntary no anchor zone (option 2):

7.1 Management options for anchoring

Option 1: No additional management. Introduce a monitoring and control plan within the site.
This monitoring and control plan would be introduced to understand levels of activity and potential impacts on the protected features. From this plan it would be ascertained whether further management measures are required.

Option 2: Voluntary no anchor zones
This option would involve boat users voluntarily avoiding specified areas to drop anchors.

Option 3: No anchor zones
This option would involve boat users being prohibited to drop anchor in specified areas via an MMO byelaw.

Option 4: Prohibition of anchoring
This option would involve boat users being prohibited to drop anchor within the whole MCZ via an MMO byelaw.

At this time, the MMO does not believe that management option 1 is sufficient to protect Studland Bay MCZ due to the levels of anchoring activity occurring at the site, as well as the evidence for the damage caused by anchoring on the features of the site. Due to the complexities and large public interest in this activity at the site, the MMO recognises the need to engage with users of the bay. The MMO will therefore hold a period of stakeholder engagement, focusing on the management approach for anchoring in the MCZ.
 

oldharry

Well-known member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
9,832
Location
North from the Nab about 10 miles
Visit site
Yes, but MMO has now narrowed it down to 2 or 3 - Voluntary or compulsory NAZ. The sting in the tail is that there are 3 NAZ proposals:

Ist proposal draws a line from somewhere near the Slip at the S end of the NT car park, to Handfast point, and only allows anchoring N of that.

2nd proposal starts somewhere near the Cafe N of Redend Point out into the Bay then across to Handfast plus an area of eelgrass located between the cafe and the NT Car park,

3rd proposal is the same as 2 but without the isoated seocnd area

All 3 proposals either ask or require us not to use the sheltered area in the SW most of us value in Studland, and prevents safe dinghy access for getting self and kids ashore. Anyone wanting to access S Beach will e anchoired at least 1/3rd of a mile North and East.

The permitted anchoring for propasal 1 is anywhere North of a point near the NT Southern slip, out to Handfast 2 and 3 allow us to get a litter closer in N of the Middle beach Cafe.

Whichever, they take ALL the prime shelter in the Bay.
 

Tomahawk

Well-known member
Joined
5 Sep 2010
Messages
19,149
Location
Where life is good
Visit site
There needs to be a no diving policy nto allow only scientific research carried out by suitable university research departments and strictly enforced to make sure NMG can never enjoy his precious seahorses.
 

Concerto

Well-known member
Joined
16 Jul 2014
Messages
5,956
Location
Chatham Maritime Marina
Visit site
I wonder how any potential no anchor zone will be advised to regular visitors to Studland arriving by boat. Not everyone keeps charts up to date with all NTM's. Does that mean signs on the beach? To be legible from a boat they would need to be HUGE. Who will moniter and move craft anchored in the wrong area? Who will pay to do this as no mention of any charges to anchorers?

Any proposal will be almost impossible to moniter and is only there to placate the bug lovers.
 

dgadee

Well-known member
Joined
13 Oct 2010
Messages
3,591
Visit site
A zoom meeting can't be a public meeting. It disadvantages those - who for various reasons - don't want to or can't access the technology. It's been a good few years since I kept a boat in Poole but think this is an important issue - it will determine future approaches in other parts of the UK.

I hope this isn't just a means to tick a box and say there was a public meeting.
 

oldharry

Well-known member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
9,832
Location
North from the Nab about 10 miles
Visit site
A zoom meeting can't be a public meeting. It disadvantages those - who for various reasons - don't want to or can't access the technology. It's been a good few years since I kept a boat in Poole but think this is an important issue - it will determine future approaches in other parts of the UK.

I hope this isn't just a means to tick a box and say there was a public meeting.

Zoom has its limitations, but the so does trying to hold a public meeting in lockdown. But as basis for a box-ticking exercise it goes a long way without too much hassle... and its beginning to look more and more like it. A No Anchor Zone that cant be enforced, and which hardly anybody knows about anyway..... Strictly limited public information to just a small handful of boaters.... Justa few eeeks to put everything in place including PR, on what could be the busiest season on record if the weather allows with all those who cannot go overseas this year.

It really doesnt sound as though they are taking this at all seriously.
 

MarlynSpyke

Active member
Joined
4 May 2012
Messages
124
Location
Ruislip
boatownersresponse.org.uk
I've put the MMO's map of their proposed smallest No Anchor Zone up on the BORG website. It's at http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/MMO-NAZ-Option3.pdf

I suggest anyone interested takes a look, to see just how much of the sheltered part of the Bay (most of it) they propose to exclude from anchoring.

Note that they draw their northern boundary of the NAZ about 100 metres on average north of the mapped edge of the eelgrass beds, which seems a quite unnecessary expansion of the NAZ.

The map presented by the MMO was distorted, squashed in the north-south axis, it was captured as an image from the screen (thanks, Old Harry) and I have adjusted it so it conforms to the outline of the Bay against a proper chart. Makes you wonder, if the Marine Management Organisation cannot even present a proper chart at an important meeting.
 

wizard

Well-known member
Joined
24 Jan 2003
Messages
1,673
Location
Portland
Visit site
Zoom has its limitations, but the so does trying to hold a public meeting in lockdown. But as basis for a box-ticking exercise it goes a long way without too much hassle... and its beginning to look more and more like it. A No Anchor Zone that cant be enforced, and which hardly anybody knows about anyway..... Strictly limited public information to just a small handful of boaters.... Justa few eeeks to put everything in place including PR, on what could be the busiest season on record if the weather allows with all those who cannot go overseas this year.

It really doesnt sound as though they are taking this at all seriously.

On a safety note:

Where are the safeguards written for access in extreme weather conditions and or fatigue on passage?
Also, the problems of stopping for a time to get tides right for Solent access in increasing wind conditions?

I did mention before about getting the MAIB involved with regard to the safety aspect as they would carry a great deal of weight at these sort of meetings., and give us some wiggle room if approached as to why we are anchoring for the above reasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dom

MarlynSpyke

Active member
Joined
4 May 2012
Messages
124
Location
Ruislip
boatownersresponse.org.uk
I meant to mention earlier - while this matter has been dragging on for years, at last week's meeting MMO said they hoped to put the measures in place for the upcoming 2021 summer season, so we all need to respond fast.
 

oldharry

Well-known member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
9,832
Location
North from the Nab about 10 miles
Visit site
On a safety note:

Where are the safeguards written for access in extreme weather conditions and or fatigue on passage?
Also, the problems of stopping for a time to get tides right for Solent access in increasing wind conditions?

I did mention before about getting the MAIB involved with regard to the safety aspect as they would carry a great deal of weight at these sort of meetings., and give us some wiggle room if approached as to why we are anchoring for the above reasons.
This is something I have been hammering away at for years: MMO said last week that anchoring 'will always be permitted in a genuine emergency'. They also acknowledged that the defintion of a 'genuine emergency' is flexible. However, as they are not proposing to close the entire Bay, there will always be somewhere to anchor.

BUT: I deliberately omit the word 'safe' referring to the designated anchorage, as the proposals do not provide any safe anchorage except in calm conditions. Apparently all the workshop feedback groups at the stakeholders meeting last week rejected all three proposals! I'm told even NGM said the NAZ area was too big!

AS Marlynspyke points out above, MMO plan to have it all in place this summer - that is about 6-8 weeks time.....and so far they dont even have a viable management proposal!
 

Seven Spades

Well-known member
Joined
30 Aug 2003
Messages
4,701
Location
Surrey
Visit site
What do you realistically think we can do at a zoom meeting? Do we get a vote or or anything? Stopping this is like trying to get the BBC licence fee cancelled.
 

oldharry

Well-known member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
9,832
Location
North from the Nab about 10 miles
Visit site
What do you realistically think we can do at a zoom meeting? Do we get a vote or or anything? Stopping this is like trying to get the BBC licence fee cancelled.
I understand you will have the chance to vote on the proposals. As they were universally voted out by the stakeholders meeting last week, even by some of the conservationists present, it seems likely the same will happen tomorrow. We can hope that MMO will think again and come up with something a bit less unreasonable, hopefully guided to some extent by input from key stakeholders like myself. The line up gives a short time for feedback, but I guess there will be too many people present for that to be realistic.

I suspect MMO underestimated the strength of feeling about this MCZ , and were not expecting many people to register. We did try to warn them!

The main point of trying to get them to see sense now is that this is the first MCZ in which there is a serious clash of interests with the boating community, so that what happens here will set the stage for others which will, inevitably, follow. Bear in mind there are much more closely controlled SPA (Specially protected areas) in the pipeline. If we let them walk all over us in Studland, we will have little or no say when they start closing off other chunks of coastal waters. This is just the beginning.
 

Seven Spades

Well-known member
Joined
30 Aug 2003
Messages
4,701
Location
Surrey
Visit site
That's encouraging news.

I am 100% sure that this NAZ is a socialist plot against the middle classes at play and nothing whatever to do with conservation.

There is incontrovertible proof that the seagrass has spread over a wider and wider area over the last 50 years so this has nothing to do with conservation.
 

MarlynSpyke

Active member
Joined
4 May 2012
Messages
124
Location
Ruislip
boatownersresponse.org.uk
I'd say more a plot by ultra-conservationists (everything natural is wonderful, everything human is evil) together with the Cult of the Seahorse (they are so sweet, we Must Save Them). The ultra-conservationists have infiltrated Natural England, who, as Statutory Advisers, sit in non-impartial judgement over this stuff.

About tonight's meeting, and next steps, from the organisers' web page:

"The public event will:
  • Summarise what has happened so far
  • Outline proposed management measures
  • Give feedback from the recent stakeholder meeting
  • Provide an opportunity to ask questions
  • Introduce a survey to have your say on which management measures you feel should be taken forward.

To attend the public engagement event on Thursday 25 March at 7pm, please click on this Zoom registration link(External link).

The survey will be open once feedback from the stakeholder and public engagement events have been reviewed. Details of the survey will be updated on this webpage."
(Studland Bay MCZ Engagement )

This survey will only be open for a short period so we must all be sure to respond.
 

chubby

Well-known member
Joined
28 Mar 2005
Messages
1,082
Location
hampshire, uk
www.flickr.com
it will be difficult to enforce a NAZ with such a short timescale: the Studland anchorage is in every pilot book and almanac for the 2021 season and on every chart so mariners who think they have done the right thing by buying up to date almanacs and the current charts or digital charts will have every expectation of being able to anchor. the season is imminent, not just the summer unless the MMO move very fast with very obvious buoys etc.

There must be a balance between conservation and usage, especially as anchoring is not new but has happened for centuries, if conservation was preeminent then why is HS2 being built and why is any green field development allowed or motorway verges dug up for widening schemes? any of these could be questioned and have been but have been allowed.

The option that includes a small separate area of middle beach is surely a non starter as that would need separately buoying.

I quite often anchor in the relatively deep area just off Redend point rather than closer to the cliffs, as you can sound quite close in and have reasonable dinghy access to both Studland south and middle beaches
 
  • Like
Reactions: dom

lustyd

Well-known member
Joined
27 Jul 2010
Messages
11,063
Location
.
Visit site
not just the summer unless the MMO move very fast with very obvious buoys etc.
Very good point. In my old boat it was almost impossible to fight the tide into Poole, and it took the best part of a day to get to Studland from the Solent. If there were buoys and (presumably) ropes blocking access on arrival in a season where current guides said it was an anchorage then I'd consider that extremely dangerous and I'd consider any attempt at blocking access to be responsible for any and all outcomes. 2022 maybe but it's still inviting problems, 2021 is just not feasible.
I'd go as far as to say if I arrived expecting safe anchoring and there were ropes and buoys blocking access, I'd feel quite comfortable destroying what I needed to make myself safe. When I say this, bear in mind that the world looks very different in a small boat in which you couldn't make a cuppa on the way over or even really prepare food if it's a bit blowy. In the new boat I'd be well rested and in a position to change plans, but I have to consider all my experiences.
 

chrishscorp

Well-known member
Joined
4 Jan 2015
Messages
2,172
Location
Live in Fareham Area, Boat in Gosport
Visit site
It is important this is responded too at Studland.

MMO have just (February 2021) undertaken another consultation on other areas of interest for non licenseable activity and some of the areas they are looking at will alarm many on here.

Studland is frankly an initial skirmish, if they get this one through it will be used as a pathfinder and we will in time have restrictions brought in all over the place

MMO are definitely looking to get this in place for the 2021 season which will be quite a task, the updates for Reeds 2022 need to be in by June ? the MMO track record on education is appalling from what i have seen, I believe there are some information boards in the visitors centres ashore, but obviously you would need to anchor first to row ashore to find out where to anchor :unsure:
 

chubby

Well-known member
Joined
28 Mar 2005
Messages
1,082
Location
hampshire, uk
www.flickr.com
Very good point. In my old boat it was almost impossible to fight the tide into Poole, and it took the best part of a day to get to Studland from the Solent. If there were buoys and (presumably) ropes blocking access on arrival in a season where current guides said it was an anchorage then I'd consider that extremely dangerous and I'd consider any attempt at blocking access to be responsible for any and all outcomes. 2022 maybe but it's still inviting problems, 2021 is just not feasible.
I'd go as far as to say if I arrived expecting safe anchoring and there were ropes and buoys blocking access, I'd feel quite comfortable destroying what I needed to make myself safe. When I say this, bear in mind that the world looks very different in a small boat in which you couldn't make a cuppa on the way over or even really prepare food if it's a bit blowy. In the new boat I'd be well rested and in a position to change plans, but I have to consider all my experiences.
I don`t think they would rope off an area as the proposals do not restrict sailing in the whole bay just anchoring. I dont see how it could be enforced but there could be a ban on high speed craft in the anchoring zone if they are allowed to use the NAZ, we have all had the experience of jetskis etc charging through anchorages.
 

FairweatherDave

Well-known member
Joined
28 Sep 2009
Messages
1,944
Location
Solent
Visit site
I've registered for the Zoom. No point in contributing to this thread about this and that, people need to take part/attend/vote on the Zoom. (And I hate Zooms, but this one seems important.)
It took less than a second to register for the Zoom in post no.1 (obviously the meeting will take longer:))
 
Top