Stainless steel launching trolley for my trailer sailer

[peterhull]

I fear that youre making things very complicated for yourself. I look after 4 trailers which spend much of their lives sitting round doing nothing and they all need a couple of hundred quid spending on them every year to keep them roadworthy. That includes, brake systems, bearings, jockey wheels and electrics. They are never immersed but not used enough to stop things slowly getting gummed up and failing. So unless your road trailer is used frequently, say once or twice a month throughout the year, I’d expect you to need to spend time and money on servicing the thing.
Given the servicing costs and the hassle that entails, I’d tend to opt for the simple life with a trailer which you use to both transport and launch. Accept that before driving down to visit us you need to service the thing: take the wheels off and check bearings (replace them if you’re worried about their condition, doesn’t take long and bearing are cheap), make sure the brakes are working, check the electrics, jockey wheel and hitch. Carry the tools and spares needed to change a bearing or brake shoe. So much simpler to my mind than going to the expense and hassle of building a launch trailer.
Final point. Any launch dolly you use will need to be able to sustain the G forces imposed by the boat as a load during towing. That’s one of the reasons why the commercially available systems are expensive, as the whole road trailer/launch dolly combination has to be constructed to meet the regulations as a whole. Constructing a dolly to put onto a flatbed trailer and then taking the combination down the M5/A30 isn’t a trivial challenge. If memory serves me correctly, the cradle needs to be able to withstand 2-3 G fore and aft and 1.5-2 G side to side and vertically. So for your one tonne of boat, your cradle/dolly will need to be able to accept loads of 3 tonnes or so fore and aft and 2 tonnes side to side. Vertical load resistance is mainly done via lashings but the support keeping the boat vertical also need to be substantial. You should talk to an engineer about this sort of stuff before committing any money to what may not be a viable concept.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to reply, it sounds like you are quite knowledgeable on this subject. Yes I agree the combinationn system does get expensive and that is a concern.

 

[peterhull]

Thanks for all your comments, always useful to hear of others experiences. One idea I did have avoiding carrying a launching dolly but still avoiding the road trailer bearings and brakes being submersed. What about an add on ramp with rollers which could be attached to the rear of the road trailer to effectively extend the length of the trailer when being launched. There would of course have to be space of the road trailer to store it and there would be a weight penalty. Has anyone ever done this?

 

[cat ketch]

I have had four piggyback trailers and would never want to go back to submerging a road trailer. I had one four wheel yard trolley which I winched onto a hired car trailer. It was fine for a slow speed half mile journey twice a year. Two of the others were four wheel trolleys on purpose built trailers. They were fine although water got in between the wheels and the solid rubber tyres and this was source of rust.

My current combination is almost the same as the photos in the question. It was built by Bramber Trailers and supplied by Cornish Crabbers and it Is in a different league to the others. The single axle trolley is very easy to manoeuvre compared to the double axle ones - you don’t need to unload from the trailer in line with the slip. The low C of G makes for very stable towing, and the fact that the trolley and trailer are locked together by a tow hitch and ball makes it perform like a single unit.

It is about ten years old now and there is no rust on it, the galvanising protects the frame and the wheels and bolts are well coated with Waxoyl. I was tempted to replace the bearings with bushes but they can be completely packed with grease as they never heat up and I have never touched them for five years except to squeeze in a spot more grease each year.

 

[DownWest]

Thanks for all your comments, always useful to hear of others experiences. One idea I did have avoiding carrying a launching dolly but still avoiding the road trailer bearings and brakes being submersed. What about an add on ramp with rollers which could be attached to the rear of the road trailer to effectively extend the length of the trailer when being launched. There would of course have to be space of the road trailer to store it and there would be a weight penalty. Has anyone ever done this?

Worth thinking about, as long as the boat does not need to float off the trailer. In my case, there is a long shallow keel, so a centre ramp with rollers and some sort of side stabilizers would do it. With any sort of short keel, prob not.
My current faering has a long centre spine with keel rollers and wisker side rollers, right at the back, that help keep it upright. This allows me to just put the tyres in the water. But, the boat is under 100kg, so not difficult. The centre spine is only about 6" off the ground, so the boat is low to start with. After 12yrs, the back meter of the tube is corroded, so will replace it with pre-galvanized tube.

 

[duncan99210]

A boat weighing in at a tonne or so either needs to float off the trailer or be craned into the water. The forces involved once it starts to tip off the vertical in any direction are such that you’ve got to keep supporting it until the water takes over. I can’t envisage a sensible system for allowing you to move an unstable load away from its support structure without significant risk of either damaging the boat or injuring someone.
Final points. Don’t forget the weight of any system you’re considering. Any trailer is subject to maximum permitted weights and will need to gain type approval before it can be used on the roads.

 

[DownWest]

A boat weighing in at a tonne or so either needs to float off the trailer or be craned into the water. The forces involved once it starts to tip off the vertical in any direction are such that you’ve got to keep supporting it until the water takes over. I can’t envisage a sensible system for allowing you to move an unstable load away from its support structure without significant risk of either damaging the boat or injuring someone.
ds.

Quite right, but worth exploring alternatives to dunking the trailer. (Not to mention it is snowing outside, so activaties limited in the unheated draughty boatshed..)
There is another aspect of this, several of the slips I use vary in slope. The most used flattens out lower down, so to get the boat off the trailer might involve getting the car wet (no) or a long extended towbar, unless at the top of the tide. Not a problem with the faering, as can be manhandled and shallow draft. For the heavier boat, the dolly system would make most sense . Craning is fine for seasonal trailing, but not for daysailing, which I do a lot of. Current launch and rig time is about 15mins for a gunter rigged sloop. The new one has a cat yawl rig, but unstayed masts, so hoping to do similar.

 

[peterhull]

Quite right, but worth exploring alternatives to dunking the trailer. (Not to mention it is snowing outside, so activaties limited in the unheated draughty boatshed..)
There is another aspect of this, several of the slips I use vary in slope. The most used flattens out lower down, so to get the boat off the trailer might involve getting the car wet (no) or a long extended towbar, unless at the top of the tide. Not a problem with the faering, as can be manhandled and shallow draft. For the heavier boat, the dolly system would make most sense . Craning is fine for seasonal trailing, but not for daysailing, which I do a lot of. Current launch and rig time is about 15mins for a gunter rigged sloop. The new one has a cat yawl rig, but unstayed masts, so hoping to do similar.

Very interesting , good to hear of others experience about this and different solutions to the problem, many thanks. Peter

 

[peterhull]

A boat weighing in at a tonne or so either needs to float off the trailer or be craned into the water. The forces involved once it starts to tip off the vertical in any direction are such that you’ve got to keep supporting it until the water takes over. I can’t envisage a sensible system for allowing you to move an unstable load away from its support structure without significant risk of either damaging the boat or injuring someone.
Final points. Don’t forget the weight of any system you’re considering. Any trailer is subject to maximum permitted weights and will need to gain type approval before it can be used on the roads.

Yes agreed. Peter

 

[peterhull]

I have had four piggyback trailers and would never want to go back to submerging a road trailer. I had one four wheel yard trolley which I winched onto a hired car trailer. It was fine for a slow speed half mile journey twice a year. Two of the others were four wheel trolleys on purpose built trailers. They were fine although water got in between the wheels and the solid rubber tyres and this was source of rust.

My current combination is almost the same as the photos in the question. It was built by Bramber Trailers and supplied by Cornish Crabbers and it Is in a different league to the others. The single axle trolley is very easy to manoeuvre compared to the double axle ones - you don’t need to unload from the trailer in line with the slip. The low C of G makes for very stable towing, and the fact that the trolley and trailer are locked together by a tow hitch and ball makes it perform like a single unit.

It is about ten years old now and there is no rust on it, the galvanising protects the frame and the wheels and bolts are well coated with Waxoyl. I was tempted to replace the bearings with bushes but they can be completely packed with grease as they never heat up and I have never touched them for five years except to squeeze in a spot more grease each year.

Yes very interesting I have been waiting for someone to come forward to describe their experiences with this system. Well done for posting your experience. The pic I showed ( at the beginning of this thread) shows a brand new trailer at Tyrone Snell premises in Penryn Cornwall. They have now ceased trading. I do like this system. As you describe the launching trailer has a ball hitch on the front of the road trailer to secure the two wheeled launching trolley and the simple hard tyred wheels tuck under the road wheels. This keeps the C of G low and stable. The cost though was quite substantial new £3500 which rather put me off. I guess if you buy a second hand boat with this arrangement that would be more economical way to acquire this system!!

 

[lw395]

A boat weighing in at a tonne or so either needs to float off the trailer or be craned into the water. The forces involved once it starts to tip off the vertical in any direction are such that you’ve got to keep supporting it until the water takes over. I can’t envisage a sensible system for allowing you to move an unstable load away from its support structure without significant risk of either damaging the boat or injuring someone.
Final points. Don’t forget the weight of any system you’re considering. Any trailer is subject to maximum permitted weights and will need to gain type approval before it can be used on the roads.

That's not entirely true, there are plenty of RIBs weighing over a tonne. Many of these can be winched onto a trailer.
A question of trailer design, weight distribution, hull shape etc.
Some 'trailer sailers' have keel configurations which make them want to fall over, some can be easily winched onto the right trailer on the right slipway.

The big problem I can see with any trolley/trailer combination is the need for a lot of space on shore, particularly a flat space to load the trolley onto the trailer.
A lot of launching sites, you're not going to be popular taking up half the car park and faffing for 20 minutes expecting everyone else to give you space.

 

[peterhull]

That's not entirely true, there are plenty of RIBs weighing over a tonne. Many of these can be winched onto a trailer.
A question of trailer design, weight distribution, hull shape etc.
Some 'trailer sailers' have keel configurations which make them want to fall over, some can be easily winched onto the right trailer on the right slipway.

The big problem I can see with any trolley/trailer combination is the need for a lot of space on shore, particularly a flat space to load the trolley onto the trailer.
A lot of launching sites, you're not going to be popular taking up half the car park and faffing for 20 minutes expecting everyone else to give you space.

Yes public slipways can be a problem. I have tended to use small privately owned boatyards which are quieter and more easy going.

 

[peterhull]

Mayfly Oystercatcher 16 for sale UK, Mayfly boats for sale, Mayfly used boat sales, Mayfly Sailing Yachts For Sale Oystercatcher 16 GRP Gaff Cutter, Combination trailer - Apollo Duck

This lovely example is for sale on Apollo Duck what a beauty. I am surprised it has not sold by now it looks good value but thought readers maybe interested in this 4 wheel dolly used to launch the boat which weighs over 1 tonne.

 

[Daydream believer]

he big problem I can see with any trolley/trailer combination is the need for a lot of space on shore, particularly a flat space to load the trolley onto the trailer.
A lot of launching sites, you're not going to be popular taking up half the car park and faffing for 20 minutes expecting everyone else to give you space.

Surely one backs the road trailer (behind the towing vehicle),with its end almost to the water, on the slipway. Slides the launching trailer off into the water. Winches boat on launching trailer/dolly & winches boat & trailer (35 feet) on to the road trailer. The whole operation can be done simply & quickly with very little space needed. Assuming, of course the crew actually know what they are doing & do not spend ages faffing (like a few of our members )

 

[lw395]

Surely one backs the road trailer (behind the towing vehicle),with its end almost to the water, on the slipway. Slides the launching trailer off into the water. Winches boat on launching trailer/dolly & winches boat & trailer (35 feet) on to the road trailer. The whole operation can be done simply & quickly with very little space needed. Assuming, of course the crew actually know what they are doing & do not spend ages faffing (like a few of our members )

Problem is, you're on a 1 in 4 slipway, then you've got the ramp angle of the trailer.
It takes a lot of winching and asks a lot of the trolley design to hold the boat securely as the trolley ramps on or off the trailer.
If the trolley is sort, and the motion is at all jerky, it could easily get horribly out of shape.
Then you have to consider some of our slipways have potholes etc.
Some people can faff for a long time with an ordinary trailer, it can be a wind up when you know you can launch or recover in under a minute.

 

[peterhull]

amazing how much interest there is in this subject, over 700 views and over 70 replies!! The power of the internet to exchange views thanks everyone and thanks PBO for supplying this platform.

 

[Sandro]

lw395, of course my boat - smallish - can be winched up on the trailer; in the first place the winching cable pulls up vertically the stem to the end roller, (the towing eye on the stem is about at water line) then the curved forefoot climbs the roller - the hardest moment for the winch - then the boat rolls uphill with the straight keel on the roller until it tips, then all is easy.

I have experienced slipways from very shallow to very steep (I can't tell angle degrees) without problems. If the slope is very very little the boat can land grounded, half floating and has to be accompanied in deeper water wading, but this would be so with any kind of trailer/launching trolley.

Only once I had to give up launching. During a severe lake draught water receded beyond the end of my usual stone slipway; water level was almost one metre lower than the edge. I attempted to launch the boat anyway but, when the stern beginned dipping, the keel was at about 45° from level and a further lowering would have flooded the outboard. I winched back and went searching for another place.

Sandro

 

[Daydream believer]

amazing how much interest there is in this subject, over 700 views and over 70 replies!! The power of the internet to exchange views thanks everyone and thanks PBO for supplying this platform.

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that 700 people have SFA to do
Not as popular as the poll on what people do with their bum foder though, at over 928 views.

 

[Kelpie]

Here's an out of the box idea. Most road trailer have a bolted on beam axle. If the nuts aren't seized up it would be pretty simple to jack up the trailer and whip off the entire axle! Have a second 'dumb' axle, i.e. no suspension or brakes, already mounted, just with its wheels removed.
Arrive at launch site- find level bit of ground- jack up trailer- remove road axle- fit launch wheels- and off you go.

Yes it's probably a daft idea, just thought I would chuck it out there. It sounds like a lot of work but it would probably only be 4 nuts to undo and the brake cables to disconnect. Having owned a poorly designed combo trailer myself for a dinghy, getting a trolley on and off a road base can be pretty tricky itself.

 

[Daydream believer]

getting a trolley on and off a road base can be pretty tricky itself.

I do it every time I sail my Phantom. It is a natural operation & takes about 6-10 seconds. Could not be easier. Loads of club dinghies have them & store the boat on the launching trolley on the road trailer to save room in the dinghy park

 

[Corribee Boy]

Getting the dolly off a breakback is usually easy, provided it's level or sloping back. Gravity is a great thing provided it's on your side! Of course it can be a sweaty few moments, but ensuring you let it back slowly on the winch it's easy to control. My bilge keeler is very stable on the dolly but an adequately designed dolly, such as the one linked to on apollo duck and incorporating a cradle, should hold most boats? Perhaps that's why a wider wheel base than a standardd car trailer is important.

I think avoiding dunking your road trailer and the consequent maintenance hassle is a no-brainer.