Some lovely photographs of the new Dover Marina

Daydream believer

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Not quite so.
It was Saint Maggie who deemed a British manufacturing industry surplus to requirements.
Successive governments just hastened its demise.
Do you not think it was more a case of killing off unrealistic state subsidised inefficient industries? The Mines, British Steel, British Leyland, the Docks were all inefficient & in some cases controlled by unions making changes difficult. So she changed the way, railways- for instance-- were operated. ( I am not sure that the idea worked, but that was not her fault)
As for killing off the docks the idea of the London docklands development scheme was brilliant & many companies grew around it as a result. I believe she tried other areas for development corporations, but it was not her fault that those responsible failed to good as those in London. Still created lots of opportunity for employment & manufacturing.
Thatcher created an environment for wealth creation. Not taking up the opportunity was not her fault, so blaming her for failure is more than a little unfair.
However, forum rules do not really allow room for political debate so I may have broken those rules. I hope not. I have much to say in support of Thatcher but not on this forum me thinks
If my post has to be withdrawn, I assume yours will as well :D
 

Bru

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Dover, that ship has long sailed.
Its all London Gateway and ships with 23000 containers on board, not congested little ports clinging to the sides of cliffs .
And yet ... the English Channel and the North Sea are chock a block with small and medium cargo vessels

And small ports up and down the coast do quite nicely out of servicing the smaller cargo vessels

As already mentioned, Dover already has regular calls by reefer ships and even though the cargo handling facilities are far from complete the port is attracting other cargoes such as aggregates and specialist cargoes

They've just had two mobile container cranes delivered so now they'll be able to handle feeder container ships too

All this before they've gained the space to expand further when the Granville and tidal basin are filled in (they've been making good use of the cruise ship terminal in the meantime)
 

Major_Clanger

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If the new marina founders (possibly literally as well as financially) then what a sad, though perfect, illustration it would be that we are no longer a proper maritime nation.

Right from the off it was fairly obvious that nature would laugh at the design. We can see the flaw on a small forum of interested amateurs, but the marine architects could not. I think it's pathetic.

And all the while they've been messing about, we've lost the outer harbour; perhaps the most useful spot in a blow between the east and south coast.
 

Daydream believer

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If the new marina founders (possibly literally as well as financially) then what a sad, though perfect, illustration it would be that we are no longer a proper maritime nation.

Right from the off it was fairly obvious that nature would laugh at the design. We can see the flaw on a small forum of interested amateurs, but the marine architects could not. I think it's pathetic.

And all the while they've been messing about, we've lost the outer harbour; perhaps the most useful spot in a blow between the east and south coast.
Would the answer be to stick a set of lock gates in the entrance. Or does the water flow under the full length of the east wall.
Expensive, but it would solve the issue at a stroke & they could use the new gates from the inner set of locks making the entire area immediately useable. Staff would already be on 24/7 so give them something to do. Works at Eastbourne and many other places round the UK
 

Cavalierbond

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I’ll be sad to see Granville go ... was strangely spooky to go through that concrete channel ... had character
 

Tomahawk

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Would the answer be to stick a set of lock gates in the entrance. Or does the water flow under the full length of the east wall.
Expensive, but it would solve the issue at a stroke & they could use the new gates from the inner set of locks making the entire area immediately useable. Staff would already be on 24/7 so give them something to do. Works at Eastbourne and many other places round the UK
From earlier reports about the pontoons moving about enough to make them dangerous to walk on, I suspect the east breakwater is solid to the bottom. Hence the tapering shape amplifying any waves that enter. There is a direct line of sight from the marina entrance to the open sea at Eastern.
 

Biggles Wader

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From earlier reports about the pontoons moving about enough to make them dangerous to walk on, I suspect the east breakwater is solid to the bottom. Hence the tapering shape amplifying any waves that enter. There is a direct line of sight from the marina entrance to the open sea at Eastern.
There is a breakwater cutting off the direct swell from the Eastern entrance but the problem is the reflected swell off the beaches which seems to come mostly via the Western entrance. They have built an extra baffle half across the new marina entrance designed to stop that but I think ultimately they will need to extend the original breakwater. It will make the entrance quite a dogs leg(or breakfast)
I think it will work in that it will be no rougher than many other marinas and a lot calmer than some. They are talking about opening up next spring. I still think there are other snags with it, namely noise from the new cargo berths and it will be heavily overlooked by the public areas on both sides. The quiet old Wellington might become very popular?
 

Pye_End

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There is a direct line of sight from the marina entrance to the open sea at Eastern.
Surely the southern arm to the new entrance covers the direct line to Dover Eastern entrance. Certainly looks that way on Google Earth. However, this is not really important as the swell reflects off all the hard surfaces. It looks to me as though they need to introduce more 'white noise' surfaces at the entrance.

I have been on Ramsgate pontoons (now fishy side) in weather that made them hard to walk on, with boats banging up against the pontoons and pontoons shaking themselves to bits. Dover does not look as bad as that did, but it does have more movement in more average conditions. It is hard to compare with other marinas without a load of boats in it.
 

Bru

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Surely the southern arm to the new entrance covers the direct line to Dover Eastern entrance. Certainly looks that way on Google Earth.
Look at the latest image on Google Maps and you'll see a wave break at right angles to the end of the entrance arm which I'm guessing is the "cunning plan" to solve the problem (in so far as it can ever be solved given the overall design and location)
 

Pye_End

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Look at the latest image on Google Maps and you'll see a wave break at right angles to the end of the entrance arm which I'm guessing is the "cunning plan" to solve the problem (in so far as it can ever be solved given the overall design and location)
Yes I agree that the extension gives it even more coverage - I was looking at the original end and lining it up with the Eastern. It is pretty irrelevant as the waves diffract round them.

When last down there (a few month ago), the extension was on. With (relatively small) waves diffracting from the Eastern and traffic in the harbour, some waves were still diffracting round the edges, but it was really the swell which was causing the problems with movement on the pontoons. Too many hard surfaces. What is it about the likes of say Brighton that manage to calm the swell so effectively - the difference between the entrance and the marina can be huge there? Suspect the physics of it is not as simple as adding more legs.

Even Granville (when open), and the outer, could get uncomfortable when the swell/waves came up from the SE.
 

Bru

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Note I didn't say the extra bit would cure the problem :)

I'm not sure there is a cure, as you say the swell is going to be an issue whatever they do short of adding gates to the entrance

Dover is probably going to drop right down my list of preferred destinations
 

Tomahawk

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Note I didn't say the extra bit would cure the problem :)

I'm not sure there is a cure, as you say the swell is going to be an issue whatever they do short of adding gates to the entrance

Dover is probably going to drop right down my list of preferred destinations
Indeed... someone (can't remember where) commented that when they build an artificial surfing beach.... they make it into a funnel shape that gets narrower in order to ampilfy the wave when it would otherwise dissipate. I suppose they could repurpose it s a surfing facility? A sneaky youtube wold do the trick.
 
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