Sneaking the guy when spi in bag?

[fobos8]

Hi guys

I sail on two boats, a 44 ft classic where we launch the spi from the forehatch, and a quarter tonner where we launch from the bag on the guard rails.

On the big boat we always get the tack of spi pulled out to the end of the pole (sneak the guy) before the hoist and have never had a wine glass wrap. Doing this spreads the clews and I reckon helps reduce the probability of a wrap. We have a man sitting over the hatch holding the kite whilst the tack is being sneaked to the end of the pole, this prevents the kite from getting blown out of the hatch prematurely.

On the quarter tonner, or any bag launched kite how do you sneak the tack to the end of the pole without the kite inadvertently coming out of the bag? Whenever we try to sneak the guy the kite starts coming out and we have to hoist before it goes in the drink.

Best regards, Andrew

 

[Channel Sailor]

I pack the spinnaker in a manner so each of the tacks can be sneaked out without a whole bundle of other sail coming out with it. Similar for the head, I try to pack a good few metres of the head sort of flaked in to one part of the bag. I do this with both a turtle and an old fashioned round bag, though not so successful in the round bag. But usually it needs a crew at the bag to help the tack out. When solo (with halyard located in the cockpit) it is more difficult an usually requires an extra visit to the foredeck. Mental note to self, I must fit that hefty cam cleat that I bought last year to fit on the mast to hold the spinnaker halyard so I can hoist at the mast.

btw, this weekend we managed on a hoist to get the foot of the spinnaker caught around the pulpit navigation light, doh. Luckily no rip. The sneaking of the guy had not been done enough or properly so the sail foot was too low at the start of the hoist. With an almost deck sweeper genoa it Makes it more difficult,

 

[mrming]

For what it’s worth on a smaller boat I prefer to launch the kite out of a bag hanging in the main companionway. You can keep a closer eye on it if you want to sneak the guy, and it gets blanketed by the main as it goes up and down.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Because sneaking is, in our view, essential, and because actually doing that is hard work and slow when it's in its bag, we take the whole thing out of said bag and dump it on the deck just in front of the shrouds. An eye is kept firmly on it with a hand ready to grab it if it attempts a swim.

(Keelboat).

 

[flaming]

It is an issue, especially on boats where you just can't have someone feeding it out.
My view would be that the reason you get wineglasses etc when hoisting larger kites is at least partly the time taken to hoist the kite. On a 1/4 tonner, I'd actually expect it to be much less of a problem, as your guy trimmer is simply going to be able to get the clew to the end of the pole, before the head gets to the top of the mast, so you'll spread the kite that way as the hoist happens.

 

[fobos8]

You still do get wineglasses on quarter tonners, not sure exactly how and why it happens.

I've never had it happen on bigger boats when the tack is at the pole prior to the hoist.

It should only take a couple of seconds to get the tack to the pole end on quarter tonners. I think the best approach would be for the trimmer to do that and then a couple of seconds later pull the halyard on hard and fast.

 

[TLouth7]

If you do a stretch-and-blow drop then the tack (and possibly the clew) will naturally be in the top of the bag. This might make it less likely that they will pull the body of the sail out as they are sneaked before the hoist.

 

[michael_w]

The round turtles that one could stuff in the pulpit were ideal for smaller boats. Really quick to set, dunno why they went out of fashion.

 

[Ceirwan]

The round turtles that one could stuff in the pulpit were ideal for smaller boats. Really quick to set, dunno why they went out of fashion.

No need to have a 16 stone bloke stood right on the bow if you launch from the side deck or companionway hatch.

 

[michael_w]

With the pulpit launch you don't need someone to sneak the guy, it's already there. The kite is less likely to get tangled with the genoa too.

 

[zoidberg]

No mention of a continuous line furler.... and hoisting furled?

 

[Ceirwan]

No mention of a continuous line furler.... and hoisting furled?

Not really an option for a traditional kite if you're using a pole.

 

[fobos8]

With the pulpit launch you don't need someone to sneak the guy, it's already there. The kite is less likely to get tangled with the genoa too.

I don't see how this would reduce the chances of hourglass twists? The benefit of sneaking the guy is to separate the clews which greatly reduces the chances of a twist when you hoist.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

In winds that can pull the spinnaker out the bag with the guy sneaked out, I have used elastic bands along the length of sail from tack to bag. This is done after packing. The tack is pulled out the bag, through a bucket with the bottom cut out. The bucket has thin elastic bands stretched over it, ready to pop over the sail as it’s fed through. Easy and fast to do after packing. As the spinnaker sets, the bands just snap. Being natural rubber, there is no significant environmental issues.

 

[flaming]

In winds that can pull the spinnaker out the bag with the guy sneaked out, I have used elastic bands along the length of sail from tack to bag. This is done after packing. The tack is pulled out the bag, through a bucket with the bottom cut out. The bucket has thin elastic bands stretched over it, ready to pop over the sail as it’s fed through. Easy and fast to do after packing. As the spinnaker sets, the bands just snap. Being natural rubber, there is no significant environmental issues.

To be 100% clear, if you are racing this violates RRS47. At the time when RRS47, "trash disposal" was introduced there were specific questions asked about elastic bands for spinnakers, and if this applied to biodegradable waste. The answers were clear and unequivocal. Using a system that is likely to result in trash in the water is illegal. And it makes no difference whatsoever if that trash is biodegradable.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

In winds that can pull the spinnaker out the bag with the guy sneaked out, I have used elastic bands along the length of sail from tack to bag. This is done after packing. The tack is pulled out the bag, through a bucket with the bottom cut out. The bucket has thin elastic bands stretched over it, ready to pop over the sail as it’s fed through. Easy and fast to do after packing. As the spinnaker sets, the bands just snap. Being natural rubber, there is no significant environmental issues.

No, that stopped in the 80s, not acceptable these days.

Prevention of Pollution by Garbage from Ships

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Thanks for the update. It’s not racing. I first used this on a cruising chute hoist, and later on spinnakers.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Thanks for the update. It’s not racing. I first used this on a cruising chute hoist, and later on spinnakers.

Marpol Annex V applies to everyone.

 

[Ceirwan]

Thanks for the update. It’s not racing. I first used this on a cruising chute hoist, and later on spinnakers.

Way to miss the point.