• REMINDER - COVID-19

    Any content, information, or advice found on social media platforms and the wider Internet, including forums such as YBW, should NOT be acted upon unless checked against a reliable, authoritative source, and re-checked, particularly where personal health and liberty is at stake. Seek professional advice/confirmation before acting on such at all times.

    Users who are found to promulgate FAKE NEWS on the forum in regard to this issue, intentional or otherwise, may find their access terminated. It is your responsibility to provide references to bona fide sources.

    FAKE NEWS, in this regard, is that which is posited by organisations, media, etc., that is repeated on the forum, or used to support personal opinion/hypothesis posted by users - FAKE NEWS is not necessarily the personal opinion/hypothesis being posted in itself, any issues with such should be challenged respectfully.

Singlehanded Jordan Series Drogue deployment

northcave

Well-known member
Joined
26 Feb 2010
Messages
2,343
Location
Bristol
After lockdown in July I took the first flight back to my boat which was in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria. I wanted to get it back to the UK this year since we planned to sail to Svarlbard in 2021... so I sailed single handed to the Azores (approx 700nm) where I'd meet my partner Emmie for the onward leg back to the UK.

A reasonable forecast showed approx 25kts for the first 3 days and then a strong blow for a couple of days south of Madeira. I had intended to pull into Madeira and let it blow through before carrying on. However, I couldn't quite claw my way up there so I decided to carry on but encountered sustained 45kt winds but with abnormally large breaking waves in the accelleration zone to the SW of Madeira. I tried to reef the main further before nightfall and ripped it down the middle. I then motored up at 50 degrees into the waves and wind with the staysail but then the engine packed up. I turned down wind and ran off. With large waves breaking around me and faced with the possibility of loosing a lot of ground into the Atlantic, with no mainsail or engine to help me claw my way north again... I deployed the JSD.

I made a video of the trip and the retrieval which I thought some might find interesting.

 

sarabande

Well-known member
Joined
6 May 2005
Messages
34,227
Location
up on the moors.
Impressive stuff, not least for the thinking in your strategy planning.


Roger Taylor (Ming Ming) has a very different story to tell about trying to bring in a JSD on a smaller boat with much simpler winches and in colder conditions.

Is that a proper JSD, or did you make it yourself, and how long is the chain at the end please ? And was there any evidence of the drogue over-running itself in the following waves ( a situation which may have been a cause of damage to a JSD in the last Golden Globe in the Pacific)
 

Poey50

Well-known member
Joined
26 Apr 2016
Messages
1,198
Location
Chichester
Roger Taylor (Ming Ming) has a very different story to tell about trying to bring in a JSD on a smaller boat with much simpler winches and in colder conditions.
Do you have a link, please?
 
Last edited:

BlowingOldBoots

Well-known member
Joined
5 Aug 2009
Messages
16,015
Location
Scotland.
Well, well, well. You are young, my mental image, once again blown away by reality. An observation on the cones, it looked as if some were fraying around the large circumference of the cone. If so, there have been issues with cones fraying to the extent that a lot of the drag is lost. It resulted in a different way of finishing the cones. Reported extensively on www.morganscloud.com; which is a subscription service.

As a by the way on perception and realty. I attended an economics course for non economists that had a negotiation module, which was filmed. At the end of the course they showed the negotiation videos. All I could think of was that a) I am bald, b) I do sound very Scottish. The baldness crushed my ego : - )
 

northcave

Well-known member
Joined
26 Feb 2010
Messages
2,343
Location
Bristol
Impressive stuff, not least for the thinking in your strategy planning.


Roger Taylor (Ming Ming) has a very different story to tell about trying to bring in a JSD on a smaller boat with much simpler winches and in colder conditions.

Is that a proper JSD, or did you make it yourself, and how long is the chain at the end please ? And was there any evidence of the drogue over-running itself in the following waves ( a situation which may have been a cause of damage to a JSD in the last Golden Globe in the Pacific)
Here is a link and small image of my chainplate designs:

Jordan Series Drogue Chainplates | Chasing Contours
83253ABC-5862-4826-AA24-6581D6B2FC7A.png
7A47075F-7538-4351-AA19-E95B2D41CA0F.png

I got the drogue from Ocean Brake. The problem during the GGR was apparently the way the main leader was attached to the bridle. They’re now doing free replacements of the old method. I’m sending mine back soon to have it re done.

No issue of over running for me personally. I did put a lanyard to prevent the bridle from going under the hydrovane rudder though. Although I doubts that would have happened in reaility.
 

sarabande

Well-known member
Joined
6 May 2005
Messages
34,227
Location
up on the moors.
Thanks for the details. Those are beefy chainplates !

I know that JSDs have a fanatical following but the weakest point is the relative fragility of the drogues, and the risk of overrunning in the circular rotation of large waves. The JSD seems to be a single purpose piece of kit, but I have a Sea Brake which seems to offer other functions, and so merits its place on board,
 

sarabande

Well-known member
Joined
6 May 2005
Messages
34,227
Location
up on the moors.
Do you have a link, please?



Roger Taylor Ming Ming Tonic of Wildness. On my Kindle the story of his JSD is about 25% through. If you have a Kindle version, search for "bleeding". Northcave has the advantage of power recovery via a self-tailing winch, a facility which (I think) is not available on the old Ming Ming.
 

newtothis

Well-known member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
731
I've always wondered, without ever having used one or given it much thought, if you could attach a light floating line to the aft end of a JSD. To retrieve it, you could then pull it in from the tail end, tripping the cones to avoid the resistance.
I'm sure someone wiser can explain why this isn't done.
 

prv

Well-known member
Joined
29 Nov 2009
Messages
36,487
Location
Southampton
I've always wondered, without ever having used one or given it much thought, if you could attach a light floating line to the aft end of a JSD. To retrieve it, you could then pull it in from the tail end, tripping the cones to avoid the resistance.
I'm sure someone wiser can explain why this isn't done.
If you mean keeping the other end of the tripping line on board, I expect the concern is it getting tangled with the main line and cones.

I suppose you could maybe allow the light line to trail out aft of the end of the drogue, and circle round to pick it up, but getting back upwind in what are probably still quite stiff conditions may be less appealing than just hauling the thing in.

Pete
 

noelex

Well-known member
Joined
2 Jul 2005
Messages
3,626
I've always wondered, without ever having used one or given it much thought, if you could attach a light floating line to the aft end of a JSD.
Apparently there is a problem with tangling.
However, a trip line from the bridle junction that will reach a winch is helpful and would have eleminated the need for the slow initial process involving repositioning the Prusik loops that shown in the video.
 
Last edited:

Poey50

Well-known member
Joined
26 Apr 2016
Messages
1,198
Location
Chichester
I've always wondered, without ever having used one or given it much thought, if you could attach a light floating line to the aft end of a JSD. To retrieve it, you could then pull it in from the tail end, tripping the cones to avoid the resistance.
I'm sure someone wiser can explain why this isn't done.
It's a question that gets asked many times and always answered in the same way. The risk of tangling is too great. If a tangle does occur that is game-over given the difficulties of recovery well illustrated in the video.
 

northcave

Well-known member
Joined
26 Feb 2010
Messages
2,343
Location
Bristol
Apparently there is a problem with tangling.
However, a trip line from the bridle junction that will reach a winch is helpful and would have eleminated the need for the slow initial process involving repositioning the Prusik loops that shown in the video.
Indeed! That’s what I’ll do next time.

Although I spent more time faffing around deciding where to bring it back aboard without snagging.
 

northcave

Well-known member
Joined
26 Feb 2010
Messages
2,343
Location
Bristol
I've always wondered, without ever having used one or given it much thought, if you could attach a light floating line to the aft end of a JSD. To retrieve it, you could then pull it in from the tail end, tripping the cones to avoid the resistance.
I'm sure someone wiser can explain why this isn't done.
Unfortunately not as the end of the drogue is designed to sink with a heavy chain. It’s this sinking and pulling with each wave that creates a nice smooth braking force rather than a constant breaking force that a single drone or sea anchor causes. As such when you retrieve it then the bitter end is very deep and you’d need a really like floating line. Add the problem of getting it around you prop, a float needed on the end or the entire thing sinking... then it’s not really possible.
 

newtothis

Well-known member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
731
Unfortunately not as the end of the drogue is designed to sink with a heavy chain. It’s this sinking and pulling with each wave that creates a nice smooth braking force rather than a constant breaking force that a single drone or sea anchor causes. As such when you retrieve it then the bitter end is very deep and you’d need a really like floating line. Add the problem of getting it around you prop, a float needed on the end or the entire thing sinking... then it’s not really possible.
Yes, I understand how the drogue works. I thought the weighted drogue and floating line combo might keep the two apart, solving the tangling issue, but it sounds like it has been tried and proved ineffective/dangerous.
But my idle curiosity is now satisfied. Fortunately, after several roundings of Cape Calshot, I've not encountered conditions that have warranted a drogue.
 

northcave

Well-known member
Joined
26 Feb 2010
Messages
2,343
Location
Bristol
, I've not encountered conditions that have warranted a drogue.
To be honest I think it’s very subjective. I’ m sure many wouldn’t have deployed in my situation and been happy to run off and trust their self steering and then make up the ground to windward over the days to follow. I just felt like it wa a tool I had and used it. Perhaps in another ten years when I have more experience I’d do something differently.
 

newtothis

Well-known member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
731
To be honest I think it’s very subjective. I’ m sure many wouldn’t have deployed in my situation and been happy to run off and trust their self steering and then make up the ground to windward over the days to follow. I just felt like it wa a tool I had and used it. Perhaps in another ten years when I have more experience I’d do something differently.
I don't doubt I'd do the same in those conditions, but my usual back up for heavy weather sailing is having a a safe marina berth nearby ready for deployment the minute it hits force 6.
 
Top