Ship Happens

clyst

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I’m a returning sailor after reaching a point in my life where I can afford to do boats and family. I’m not made of money but have some spare to buy and hopefully make better a 25-30 footer. I haven’t decided on one yet but am looking.
I’m astounded by the negativity surrounding the people trying to keep a WW2 survivor afloat. I vaguely remember some woodworking skills I’ve used previously but am daunted by any “new venture” that may come from my future purchase.
I don’t know them but have flicked through some of the YouTube videos and wouldn’t be so quick to condemn them straightaway. Yes their methods might not be proper “shipwright” but if it strengthens the hull prior to being put on the hard, which is inevitable at some point in the future, then how can you criticise? She’s going to have to be lifted.
Good on them for their bravery in starting and seeing their innovative nature I think we may be surprised.
Good on them and their sponsors for supporting them I’m slightly jealous I can’t do it.
BACK IN THE BILGES....Maybe if your first post was only an induction of your quest to return to boating instead of stating that you were astounded by the amount of negativity being expressed by regular posters followed by a remark questioning how we could criticise methods of restoration without knowing the posters boat working background or skills your opening post may had been better received .
 

38mess

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I’ve already posted asking for advice/opinions. I’m not sure what I’ve got into here. I was just a bit surprised at the reactions that were made. Please look at new threads. Thanks. By the way it’s relics if you’re going to doubt my intentions not “reliques”.
Welcome to the forum.
There is a lot of good advice on here, also
a lot of advice from people googling stuff and re posting, take your time and sieve through and ignore the armchair experts, myself I have been working on boats in a professional capacity for 40 years and the best advice I can give is get a good surveyor on the case when you decide to buy a boat.
As for ship happens I think they know exactly what they are doing ?
 

Tranona

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I’ve already posted asking for advice/opinions. I’m not sure what I’ve got into here. I was just a bit surprised at the reactions that were made. Please look at new threads. Thanks. By the way it’s relics if you’re going to doubt my intentions not “reliques”.
There is plenty of experience on these forums that underpin the advice given. This is perhaps the wrong thread to enter if you want to find out more about refurbishing a more "normal" older, smaller boat. The project these folks are undertaking is so far from "normal" as to be almost surreal and should not in any way be seen as something that contributes to the world of small boat ownership.

What is clear is that most refurbishment projects at the lower end (size and money) fail to get completed primarily because people totally underestimate the time, money, skills and commitment required to make them work. Of course for some this is not an issue - it is the process, not the outcome that is important. However if your objective is to go sailing get a boat that somebody else has done the work on. Such boats are not easy to find in your size range because generally speaking owners of good small boats don't want to sell. Those for sale are the ones that are in varying stages of not so good to awful.

There is a sort of in between - a boat that is still working but needs some upgrading or replacements that can be done over time. The key is to do these mini projects over time ensuring that the boat is always ready for sailing in the summer. The problems start when you take a boat out of commission to do lots of things in one go. This is the start of the slippery slope when you are paying storage fees and getting overwhelmed by the sheer volume of work required. Those of us who have been around a long time have watched this cycle and seen perfectly good boats spiral downwards into basket cases.

Despite all the potential pitfalls I have bought just such a boat in full working condition with a good survey, but my project is for 5 years to get it back up to a high standard, working on it for 7 months of the year and in commission for the other 5. I am fortunate that I have a permanent marina berth and potential for out of the water for 8 weeks a year. Plus I live 15 minutes drive away, am retired with no restrictions. In addition in the past I have done a similar thing with a similar boat - but over 30 years!

As you have already seen there is a hard choice to make between a wood and a GRP boat. For this project of mine I actually had the choice with the same design of boat that was built either all wood or GRP hull with wood topsides. The all wood one was very well looked after and very original, but a day with the surveyor finding a series of small issues rather put me off even though individually they were not serious and relatively easy to repair. Did I want to spend 5 years with a boat where there is always a possibility that such issues would arise again? The GRP boat was less desirable in some ways, better in others, but the GRP hull removed some of the risk. On balance I think I have done the right thing buying the GRP one, but anyway I have to live with it now!
 

Tradewinds

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Tranona is quite correct.

The BIG mistake is to start 'renovations' (ie ripping stuff out :D) in a fit of enthusiasm - usually in multiple locations.

Removal is easy - restoration is not. To do it properly (even if you have the skills) is time consuming and usually far more expensive than you first thought.

You have been warned :ROFLMAO:
 

Back in the bilges.

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There is plenty of experience on these forums that underpin the advice given. This is perhaps the wrong thread to enter if you want to find out more about refurbishing a more "normal" older, smaller boat. The project these folks are undertaking is so far from "normal" as to be almost surreal and should not in any way be seen as something that contributes to the world of small boat ownership.

What is clear is that most refurbishment projects at the lower end (size and money) fail to get completed primarily because people totally underestimate the time, money, skills and commitment required to make them work. Of course for some this is not an issue - it is the process, not the outcome that is important. However if your objective is to go sailing get a boat that somebody else has done the work on. Such boats are not easy to find in your size range because generally speaking owners of good small boats don't want to sell. Those for sale are the ones that are in varying stages of not so good to awful.

There is a sort of in between - a boat that is still working but needs some upgrading or replacements that can be done over time. The key is to do these mini projects over time ensuring that the boat is always ready for sailing in the summer. The problems start when you take a boat out of commission to do lots of things in one go. This is the start of the slippery slope when you are paying storage fees and getting overwhelmed by the sheer volume of work required. Those of us who have been around a long time have watched this cycle and seen perfectly good boats spiral downwards into basket cases.

Despite all the potential pitfalls I have bought just such a boat in full working condition with a good survey, but my project is for 5 years to get it back up to a high standard, working on it for 7 months of the year and in commission for the other 5. I am fortunate that I have a permanent marina berth and potential for out of the water for 8 weeks a year. Plus I live 15 minutes drive away, am retired with no restrictions. In addition in the past I have done a similar thing with a similar boat - but over 30 years!

As you have already seen there is a hard choice to make between a wood and a GRP boat. For this project of mine I actually had the choice with the same design of boat that was built either all wood or GRP hull with wood topsides. The all wood one was very well looked after and very original, but a day with the surveyor finding a series of small issues rather put me off even though individually they were not serious and relatively easy to repair. Did I want to spend 5 years with a boat where there is always a possibility that such issues would arise again? The GRP boat was less desirable in some ways, better in others, but the GRP hull removed some of the risk. On balance I think I have done the right thing buying the GRP one, but anyway I have to live with it now!
Thank you for your warts and all reply, the romantic part of me wants a beautiful wooden hull that lovingly gets looked after all the time. However after reading a lot on this forum I’m definitely erring on the side of GRP. I don’t honestly think I have the time or resources to do a wooden hull justice.
Thanks for the advice.
 

penfold

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Get a wooden boat if you like woodworking and are good at it or can afford to pay someone else to do the woodworking; otherwise get a GRP boat to go boating.
 

jamie N

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I've had my wooden boat for 7 years, and am still fighting the good fight. I enjoy the sailing, but also enjoy the hassle and extra intensity required in owning a wooden boat.
Don't buy a wooden boat unless you can 'buy into the idea' of it.
Think of an old classic car, but then imagine that it's impossible to finish it, ever, because if you take your eyes off of it, it'll undo all of the work, and sink or rot or catch fire.
An old Morgan in a garage is likely to remain in a static condition, with a slow deterioration, and will look better after a quick polish once spring arrives. A wooden boat will look awful, and take an entire season to restore to the point of appearing loved again.
The movie Genevieve gives an idea of the efforts involved.
My boat seems to be set on suicide, all the time......:cry:
 

Wansworth

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I've had my wooden boat for 7 years, and am still fighting the good fight. I enjoy the sailing, but also enjoy the hassle and extra intensity required in owning a wooden boat.
Don't buy a wooden boat unless you can 'buy into the idea' of it.
Think of an old classic car, but then imagine that it's impossible to finish it, ever, because if you take your eyes off of it, it'll undo all of the work, and sink or rot or catch fire.
An old Morgan in a garage is likely to remain in a static condition, with a slow deterioration, and will look better after a quick polish once spring arrives. A wooden boat will look awful, and take an entire season to restore to the point of appearing loved again.
The movie Genevieve gives an idea of the efforts involved.
My boat seems to be set on suicide, all the time......:cry:
With a wooden boat you know what you have as opposed to a modern grp boat that can have deteriorating core material,shoddy layup ineffective bulkhead bonding .
 

Tranona

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With a wooden boat you know what you have as opposed to a modern grp boat that can have deteriorating core material,shoddy layup ineffective bulkhead bonding .
That is not a reflection of reality. Despite the somewhat poor building practices of some early GRP the structures are very durable and easily checked. On the other hand most of the problems with wood are indeed hidden and it is only when you start on what seem to be minor defects do you find the real extent of the damage. See my post#266. It was the hidden defects, or rather the difficulty of determining the full extent of the rot that put me off - despite (or because of!) my considerable experience of the type of boat.

jamie N is right. Once you get a wooden boat up ro scratch you need to keep on top of it. If you do, then you can keep it looking good for years. Let it go, even for one season and you are on the slippery slope.

This is my old boat after 30 years of regular use and 9 years laid up under a tarp. IMG_20190717_171849.jpg
 

Wansworth

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Ha
That is not a reflection of reality. Despite the somewhat poor building practices of some early GRP the structures are very durable and easily checked. On the other hand most of the problems with wood are indeed hidden and it is only when you start on what seem to be minor defects do you find the real extent of the damage. See my post#266. It was the hidden defects, or rather the difficulty of determining the full extent of the rot that put me off - despite (or because of!) my considerable experience of the type of boat.

jamie N is right. Once you get a wooden boat up ro scratch you need to keep on top of it. If you do, then you can keep it looking good for years. Let it go, even for one season and you are on the slippery slope.

This is my old boat after 30 years of regular use and 9 years laid up under a tarp. View attachment 125340
ving been looking at old grp boats within my budget I was put of two for reasons of unknown quality of the construction.whilst in the wooden boats I have owned thestructural problems could be seen,but See your point of view especially in plywood construction or cold mounding for e ample
 

V1701

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Even the best case scenario - a boat with few equipment malfunctions, pending replacements or repairs needed to speak of you absolutely have to be mindful about dealing with issues as soon after they arise as you can or they will start to get to the stage where an owner can feel overwhelmed and it's downhill from there. I'm no expert but I have owned, worked on and improved several boats, all of which were not at all bad to start with (and finding those in the first place takes a lot of time and effort) and also helped a few people along the way to buy their first boat. Doing the latter I've always been at pains to stress the importance of either being prepared and able to pay somebody to work on their boat or get their hands dirty and learn how to do things themselves. I'm a bit wary of doing that again because I was ending up feeling responsible for other people's boats as well as my own...

The point being that there'll be enough to keep you busy with a boat that's already in fairly good condition so if you actually want to go boating buy one that's good to go unless you really enjoy the doing up...
 

clyst

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Just stumbled accross the latest episode on You tube and thought I'd have a quick look to see if things have improved........... ..sadly it appears not . The episode opened with them thanking all for the donations to enable them to purchase a new outboard for the dinghy used to remove rubbish ,so their skills of scrounging are still going strong .?? followed by a demonstration of how well it propels the dinghy even to the extent of allowing the youngster helm it . Nothing wrong with that I quess but the video clearly shows the kill cord neatly coiled up out of the way unattached to anyone .?.............. complete numpties !...... ...BTW as diesel approaches £2 /ltr they had better produce another " poor us" video to start the suckers stumping up to assist in the running costs .
 
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Caer Urfa

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I also watched this week after some time as can not stand the giggling, then this week people sent them a brand new outboard for nothing and they said it was a big surprise, some surprise?? they ask for one on their ever growing wish list as they could not afford a new one, maybe her recent trip to America was free??.

Being an RYA instructor I also noted the kill cord just hanging down or maybe they have not a clue what its for, then only the little girl is seen wearing a buoyancy aid which looked way to big for her as the other two are super human and cannot fall overboard so no life jackets needed.

I cannot wait till they find out how much marine ply is for the roof, mind I can see that also going on their wish list and more mugs will just send them some free
 

clyst

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I know what you mean about the incessant giggling although I had a little chuckle myself when I saw the 4ft hair platt swinging around on the top of her head like an elephant's trunk?........ .. would have thought that would be positively dangerous on a boat and using power tools .
 
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penfold

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I expect they'll just bodge it up with OSB or shuttering ply, much as they've bodged so much else. It'll work too, for 18 months or so.
I cannot wait till they find out how much marine ply is for the roof, mind I can see that also going on their wish list and more mugs will just send them some free
 

clyst

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I expect they'll just bodge it up with OSB or shuttering ply, much as they've bodged so much else. It'll work too, for 18 months or so.
They have already said in the video that they are going to bodge it by saying that they intend to fibreglass (presumably polyester resin), the ply rather than epoxy as that would be too expensive . ......... a cynic would see that comment as one of their "poor us" conns .?
 

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