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Selling our Finngulf 33 (not really an advert?)

pvb

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
43,449
Location
UK East Coast
One question - If you set up a private website, how can you make sure your listing appears in popular search engines, such as YBW?
YBW isn't a search engine! But with careful use of text, photo captions, etc, a website should appear pretty high up in most searches. The website for my HR352 appeared on the first page of Google results. The best way to help direct traffic from YBW is to use an ad in the "boats for sale" section, only costs about a tenner.
 

Quandary

Well-known member
Joined
20 Mar 2008
Messages
7,873
Location
Argyll
I don't think that is a fact. The several potential buyers of my boat were all happy to proceed privately. If your boat is Part 1 registered, the process is even safer for the buyer. Many brokers are prepared to only handle the paperwork, for a small fee, if the buyer prefers.
What you say would make sense and if I was not out here on the West Coast I would go the route you suggest. It defies logic that so many people are happy to pay so much more to buy a perfectly good and well presented boat through a broker, £5k would buy a lot of sails equipment or pay for a nice holiday, but it is clear that they are. Just as the majority of second hand cars are bought from dealers. Where the stumbling blocks for me are that the boat is rare and the location while attractive is remote, some potential customers will respond to a broker who will not trust a private seller particularly if they have to spend time or money to get here, if there is only one customer for my boat I want to make sure he comes to see it. If I advertise it privately at a £5k discount and then later have to employ a broker I can not reasonably increase the price so I will have paid the commission and vat twice, that makes private sale a risky route for me to take.
 

pvb

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
43,449
Location
UK East Coast
What you say would make sense and if I was not out here on the West Coast I would go the route you suggest. It defies logic that so many people are happy to pay so much more to buy a perfectly good and well presented boat through a broker, £5k would buy a lot of sails equipment or pay for a nice holiday, but it is clear that they are. Just as the majority of second hand cars are bought from dealers. Where the stumbling blocks for me are that the boat is rare and the location while attractive is remote, some potential customers will respond to a broker who will not trust a private seller particularly if they have to spend time or money to get here, if there is only one customer for my boat I want to make sure he comes to see it. If I advertise it privately at a £5k discount and then later have to employ a broker I can not reasonably increase the price so I will have paid the commission and vat twice, that makes private sale a risky route for me to take.
I had people from Ireland, Northumberland and Cornwall travel to Suffolk to view my boat. I advertised it at about the same price as brokers would have listed it, and settled for a couple of thousand less. I wouldn't suggest that you should drop the price for a private sale - buyers are aware of how much brokers charge, and will factor this in when deciding how much to offer.
 

starboard

New member
Joined
22 Dec 2003
Messages
3,017
Location
N5533 W00441
I am more likely to be put off by buying through a Broker, mainly because of the increased price the seller will ask for to pay the hefty broker fee.
I very nearly bought a lovely HR34 here on the west coast of Scotland that I had seen advertised in The Scottish Yachting Life magazine. However by the time I had spotted the advert the vender had decided to place the boat with a broker and was not in a position any more to accept the offer that I would have made as by the time he had paid his broker fees he would not have done as well as dealing direct with myself.
That said I always say a boat is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. If your Finngulf is in good nick, being a quality boat that it is I am sure it will sell without any problem.
 

TheOldCodger

New member
Joined
26 Feb 2015
Messages
16
I travelled abroad to get the right boat.

I am more likely to be put off by buying through a Broker, mainly because of the increased price the seller will ask for to pay the hefty broker fee.
I very nearly bought a lovely HR34 here on the west coast of Scotland that I had seen advertised in The Scottish Yachting Life magazine. However by the time I had spotted the advert the vender had decided to place the boat with a broker and was not in a position any more to accept the offer that I would have made as by the time he had paid his broker fees he would not have done as well as dealing direct with myself.
That said I always say a boat is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. If your Finngulf is in good nick, being a quality boat that it is I am sure it will sell without any problem.
I travelled to Denmark to buy my current boat. The cost of visiting was no more than travelling to a distant part of the UK. The seller paid to transport the boat back to England. I got the boat I really wanted in top condition. It was well worth the effort. Mind you my other boat is still for sale, a beautiful Crabber 22, based in Bosham. Come visit!
 

JumbleDuck

Well-known member
Joined
8 Aug 2013
Messages
23,178
Location
SW Scotland
My gut feeling is that you would do better to have her near Glasgow. Ardrishaig is a blinking long way to go to see one boat unless you really, really know you want that sort.
 

jonrarit

Member
Joined
18 Oct 2010
Messages
186
How about adding £500 to the asking price and offering to refund the travel costs for the buyer ..... or take a £500 hit on the sale but offer the same....

you only need one buyer ....

jr

ps A friend of mine has a finngulf 33 in Rhu ..... stonkingly good yacht .... :)
 

Quandary

Well-known member
Joined
20 Mar 2008
Messages
7,873
Location
Argyll
My gut feeling is that you would do better to have her near Glasgow. Ardrishaig is a blinking long way to go to see one boat unless you really, really know you want that sort.
I hope your guts are wrong this time!
If I take it down to Rhu or Kip I will miss the possibility of a seasons cruising and if it is our last one that is a big sacrifice, I hope she will be in Stornoway more often than Glasgow this summer. If she is in one of the marinas serving the Central Belt I will either have to place her with the on site broker or spend the summer tearing up and down the A83 to meet all the tyre kickers you get down there. Anyway if someone wants the boat and gets as close as Glasgow they might be serious enough to deserve to be collected at the airport or the train station. If one person knowing and wanting a Finngulf 33 views this boat, they will buy it, she has been obsessively cared for and is the best example of the model in the UK perhaps in Europe and the price will be lower than any recorded sales so far.
My hope is that there are enough people out there somewhere who know what the boat is and that one of them is ready to buy. Strangely of the five (or perhaps six) Finngulf 33s that made it to the UK four have been kept in Scotland at some time though there are only two up here now; who knows, she might even find a new home up here, she certainly suits this water.
 

photodog

Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Joined
8 Apr 2007
Messages
38,399
The Finngulf is a cracking boat....my top choice to replace ours. If you were selling in two years I would have zero hesitation travelling up and seeing her. The locatio would not put me off.

She is such a rare beast here in the UK, that I don't think its a bad thing to have her were she is.... Anyone w is interested will travel. And in reality delivery is not a big deal... Stick her in a lorry and she can be anywere in the UK in24 hours.

I would put together a really good website using a preset form thing from someone like namesco, which is mobile friendly... Maybe wordpress... And then put a link on your signature here... Submit to google etc.. Wait for the calls.
 
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Quandary

Well-known member
Joined
20 Mar 2008
Messages
7,873
Location
Argyll
How about adding £500 to the asking price and offering to refund the travel costs for the buyer ..... or take a £500 hit on the sale but offer the same....

you only need one buyer ....

jr

ps A friend of mine has a finngulf 33 in Rhu ..... stonkingly good yacht .... :)
I suspect that the haggling will cost me a lot more than £500.

I have some photos of your friends Finngulf under sail, taken in the Sound of Luing just after he bought her in 2013, it was a dull day and the wind was light but she was going well, if he wants copies PM me with an email address and I can look them out and send them.
 

jofb

New member
Joined
8 Sep 2006
Messages
46
Location
Kent
They are a cracking boat. A good friend bought one a couple of years ago that had also been up in Scotland when new but is now in the Solent and elicits many, many compliments for her looks. Very pretty, indeed, but also very quick!
 

JumbleDuck

Well-known member
Joined
8 Aug 2013
Messages
23,178
Location
SW Scotland
I hope your guts are wrong this time!
If I take it down to Rhu or Kip I will miss the possibility of a seasons cruising and if it is our last one that is a big sacrifice,
Maybe try both, then. Advertise her where she is this year for the Finngulf enthusiasts and if that doesn't work stick her ashore somewhere on the Clyde from the autumn. I was perfectly happy to drive from SW Scotland to Milford Haven to view my current boat, because I knew I wanted that type and there were only a couple for sale. I would have been less likely to go there to view a model on which I was not particularly keen.
 

Seven Spades

Well-known member
Joined
30 Aug 2003
Messages
4,245
Location
Surrey
Do you want to sell her or use her? If you want to sell her move the boat to the Hamble Point Marina. This is the marina with the most foot fall and the people with fattest wallets. In the Hamble there is a good chance that the broker will show people who ask for different boats your boat. In Scotland you are only likely to sell it to some one who just wants a Finngulf. Personally I would call Roger Moon at SD Marine, he used to be the Maxi agent in the UK and is quite well known for performance boats, I am sure he will be able to sell it reasonably quickly. He sold my boat in 10 days.
 

Quandary

Well-known member
Joined
20 Mar 2008
Messages
7,873
Location
Argyll
Many thanks to everyone who took the time to give me advice, it has helped me considerably to identify my priorities. After considering what has been said here are my conclusions.
While I need to sell the boat I want to continue to use her and at the moment we are both fit enough to continue to do that, I do not want to part with her, it was the experience of preparing and commissioning her this spring which brought home the consequences of increasing disabilities, getting to and working at the top of the mast particularly.
I do not need the money immediately and while up to now she has been depreciating at about £6k per annum, I think that should have slowed down a bit now and anyway as your remaining lifespan reduces, the value to be gained from a year of enjoyed activity increases disproportionately. If the Tories get back with UKIP the pound will drop rapidly with the coming referendum, imported yachts will rise in price and should open our market here to European customers again; perhaps I should vote for them?
I have been surprised by the number of you who know about the boat despite its rarity and by the esteem in which she is held even in the UK. When I bought her there was just nothing else that I looked at that compared and I surely can not be the only one that holds that view. That encourages me to think that someone will make the journey to view, having seen a majority of the Finngulf 33 in the UK, I know how ours compares. (Six months of each year under cover really has paid off now) She is on a secure alongside berth which costs £1k. per year with direct access to the west coast and some of you have suggested that might appeal to a buyer who wants to experience Europe's best cruising before taking her away by road or sea.
I will place her with a local broker, at Ardfern, if they are good enough for HRH they will do me, not because I do not think I could sell her myself but because I am still convinced that a buyer coming from far away is more likely to regard their descriptions as accurate. Also they have a HR 34 listed which is 50% older with a 50% higher asking price, to me there is just no comparison but a potential buyer can make his own judgement. I would hope a potential buyer for the HR might think a very clean younger Finngulf nearby worth a look. While Ardfern do not discount the commission, they do a good job of presentation, advertise widely and have association with English brokers, I believe you get what you pay for.
If they do not sell her this year I will have enough feedback to review the problem, then I will decide whether I need to move her south, it would make a cruising objective for next summer.
And if I do sell her after that I will end my days in misery (or a motorhome, same thing perhaps?)
 

scottie

Well-known member
Joined
14 Nov 2001
Messages
4,224
Location
scotland
Having kept out as I did not feel I could add to the post I have to say the canal would be slightly less interesting not finding your boat lurking by the bank.
 

jonic

Well-known member
Joined
12 Mar 2002
Messages
4,076
Location
Solent
Many thanks to everyone who took the time to give me advice, it has helped me considerably to identify my priorities. After considering what has been said here are my conclusions.
While I need to sell the boat I want to continue to use her and at the moment we are both fit enough to continue to do that, I do not want to part with her, it was the experience of preparing and commissioning her this spring which brought home the consequences of increasing disabilities, getting to and working at the top of the mast particularly.
I do not need the money immediately and while up to now she has been depreciating at about £6k per annum, I think that should have slowed down a bit now and anyway as your remaining lifespan reduces, the value to be gained from a year of enjoyed activity increases disproportionately. If the Tories get back with UKIP the pound will drop rapidly with the coming referendum, imported yachts will rise in price and should open our market here to European customers again; perhaps I should vote for them?
I have been surprised by the number of you who know about the boat despite its rarity and by the esteem in which she is held even in the UK. When I bought her there was just nothing else that I looked at that compared and I surely can not be the only one that holds that view. That encourages me to think that someone will make the journey to view, having seen a majority of the Finngulf 33 in the UK, I know how ours compares. (Six months of each year under cover really has paid off now) She is on a secure alongside berth which costs £1k. per year with direct access to the west coast and some of you have suggested that might appeal to a buyer who wants to experience Europe's best cruising before taking her away by road or sea.
I will place her with a local broker, at Ardfern, if they are good enough for HRH they will do me, not because I do not think I could sell her myself but because I am still convinced that a buyer coming from far away is more likely to regard their descriptions as accurate. Also they have a HR 34 listed which is 50% older with a 50% higher asking price, to me there is just no comparison but a potential buyer can make his own judgement. I would hope a potential buyer for the HR might think a very clean younger Finngulf nearby worth a look. While Ardfern do not discount the commission, they do a good job of presentation, advertise widely and have association with English brokers, I believe you get what you pay for.
If they do not sell her this year I will have enough feedback to review the problem, then I will decide whether I need to move her south, it would make a cruising objective for next summer.
And if I do sell her after that I will end my days in misery (or a motorhome, same thing perhaps?)
I think that is a good move. :encouragement:

A wise yachtsman once told me, never run a slide rule too much over the cost of boating as the freedom and enjoyment a yacht can give you is priceless.

All the best with it.
 
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dunedin

Well-known member
Joined
3 Feb 2004
Messages
7,411
Location
Boat (now back in) the Clyde
Quandry - if it is the fitting out that is the issue, why not budget a small amount and get this done professionally for the next 3 years (say). Getting the anti fouling done, engine serviced and rig & sails put on professionally, giving a walk on and sail proposition, might keep you sailing for years yet. Looking at in life terms is £2k or so pa extra costs not worth it for the extra seasons sailing?

Even better, keep afloat and in commission all winter (in a salt water marina) - believe me this reduces the work hugely, and also I believe reduces the wear and tear on the boat by not dismantling things unnecessarily. Sailing once a month in winter sunshine keeps everything working, and heaters and dehumidifier avoids frost when in salt water. (Though we do strip out the interior cushions etc and store these ashore)
 

fastjedi

Member
Joined
9 Oct 2003
Messages
728
Location
Hampshire
The Finngulf is a cracking boat....my top choice to replace ours. If you were selling in two years I would have zero hesitation travelling up and seeing her. The locatio would not put me off.

She is such a rare beast here in the UK, that I don't think its a bad thing to have her were she is.... Anyone w is interested will travel. And in reality delivery is not a big deal... Stick her in a lorry and she can be anywere in the UK in24 hours.

I would put together a really good website using a preset form thing from someone like namesco, which is mobile friendly... Maybe wordpress... And then put a link on your signature here... Submit to google etc.. Wait for the calls.
DITTO ....
 

Seven Spades

Well-known member
Joined
30 Aug 2003
Messages
4,245
Location
Surrey
I think by selling the boat where you are you are restricting the purchasers to only those prepared to travel and only those looking for that particular boat. I am in no doubt that the boat will sell quicker and for a higher price down South.
 
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