SELDEN SINGLE LINE REEFING

[fearmhuir]

I have Selden single line reefing. While it works quite well when it is needed, i.e. when reefing down, it is a big issue when shaking out a reef. After releasing the clutch I then have to go to the mast, pull out the reefing line fully, and then pull slack on the boom end reefing line before raising the sail.
At no time, even when the boat was new have I been able to open the cleat and winch up the sail.
There seems to be a lot of friction in the system - even pulling out the slack at either end of the boom takes effort and the 'car' in the boom can be heard moving along.
I will be back on board at the end of June, and sorting this out is on my to-do list.
Having read previous discussions regarding single line reefing, a couple of options come to mind:
1) The current line is 11/12 mm braid, maybe replacing this with lighter Spectra (as suggested by Vyv Cox previously) might improve things?
2) Replace the current Selden internal 'cars' with back to back blocks, again as per Vyv Cox? I had a previous Selden boom apart, and these 'cars' run in internal tracks with just a small nylon roller on a pin - engineering wise, this didn't seem an elegant solution.
So, how are others out there getting on with their Selden single line reefing systems? Same as mine, or able to shake out the reef without leaving the cockpit?
Suggestions welcome!

 

[PaulRainbow]

I don't have the Seldon single line reefing, but i did find that changing my reefing lines from 10mm braid on braid to 8mm Dyneema transformed my reefing.

I'm currently re-rigging and will be running the reefing lines through soft shackles/low friction rings, rather than the cringles, to further reduce friction.

 

[Sandy]

1) The current line is 11/12 mm braid, maybe replacing this with lighter Spectra (as suggested by Vyv Cox previously) might improve things?

That sounds huge! All my halyards are 10 mm on 10.10m boat. I replaced my 6mm reefing lines with 8mm as the old ones were showing their age and I am heading to 60° North later this year.

 

[Never Grumble]

I have Selden single line reefing. While it works quite well when it is needed, i.e. when reefing down, it is a big issue when shaking out a reef. After releasing the clutch I then have to go to the mast, pull out the reefing line fully, and then pull slack on the boom end reefing line before raising the sail.

Last time I did need to go and shake the lines out, mind my lines are very old and in need of replacement.

 

[Daydream believer]

You do not need the cars. Take them out &pass the lines straight through to avoid the friction. They do NOT give a mechanical advantage. I rigged up a test rig in my workshop to prove it. They just add friction . They do shorten the line length a bit but what is a couple of coils at the cabin end. One has to change the way one applies the reef slightly but it is much easier. A lot depends on sail size of course. I have 30 m2

 

[BobnLesley]

We had the Selden single line set up on our 35' yacht (the lines were 8mm) and initially suffered similar problems, which we found were due to the lines twisting around themselves within the boom - one seemed more prone than the other. Our answer was to release the lines from the sail, pop off the end cap/blocks from the rear of the boom, work the twists out of the lines and reassemble. It was an easy 30 minute task if you did it soon after feeling deterioration/increased friction beginning in the reefing system which we did perhaps twice a year - we were living aboard/sailing full time - but if you left it too long you had to un-reeve the whole line (pull a mousing line through the boom) to clear the twists.

Leaving the job too long also caused the two plates which connect the moving pulley wheels within the boom to bend/twist (a hammer or better still a vice sorts those out) and in one instance, it even cracked the edge of one of those pulley wheels, so check those too; we just found a loose block with a suitably sized wheel in the locker and pulled that apart for a quick replacement.

 

[BobnLesley]

You do not need the cars. Take them out &pass the lines straight through to avoid the friction...One has to change the way one applies the reef slightly but it is much easier...

We tried that and would agree regarding the reduced friction, but we found that to make it work we needed to fit a block at the sail luff's reefing eye and those blocks too often twisted or snagged on something when trying to get a reef in or out.

 

[Caladh]

Yes we have the same issues as the poster. However the difficulty of shaking the reefs out is more than offset by the ease of putting the damn things in !

 

[fearmhuir]

Thanks guys. There would seem to be an advantage in reducing the line diameter to start with, maybe dyneema 8 mm.
Also, a back to back block instead of the current cars must be an improvement on the current arrangement I expect too. I had a look at Seateach shuttle blocks, and they look a nice, snagfree solution.
I plan to open up the boom when I get back to the boat in June and take the end cap off and see exactly what is happening in there.
Will report back with what I find, and on what changes are made.

 

[vyv_cox]

I have heard that the system I show on my website was subsequently patented by Z-Spars, although having been slightly involved with intellectual property rights in the past I am not sure about the truth of this. However, Selden decided to come up with theirs, which most agree is less good. I dreamed up my double block method and originally used two pairs of single blocks shackled together. Reducing rope diameter does make a huge difference to friction.

 

[Daydream believer]

We tried that and would agree regarding the reduced friction, but we found that to make it work we needed to fit a block at the sail luff's reefing eye and those blocks too often twisted or snagged on something when trying to get a reef in or out.

I would have thought it would be obvious that a block is needed at the luff anyway. Setting it not to twist is simple enough use a ball bearing block of reasonable diameter it could be that you were using lines more prone to twist, it is important to use the correct type as well as diameter

 

[fearmhuir]

I have heard that the system I show on my website was subsequently patented by Z-Spars,

Yes, from what I saw of my previous boats boom, the Seldon arrangement left a lot to be desired in terms of internal friction. At a minimum I will replace the reefing lines with Dyneema (maybe 8 mm) and see how that improves matters. I also noticed that Selden supply ball bearing boom sheaves which would also help.

 

[johnalison]

I have Selden reefing on a 34ft boat. I would like to have less friction, and maybe the next owner will get around to changing to Dyneema. I never have to go to the mast, but manage by pulling the line out at the clew until there is plenty of slack, when the main can be winched up fairly easily.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Using Dyneema soft shackles with a low friction rinds, instead of blocks, means a lot less noise and less worry about twist, it also means smaller lumps on your head if one on the leech gives you a slap

dyneema soft shackle low friction ring - Google Search

 

[ithet]

I have heard that the system I show on my website was subsequently patented by Z-Spars, although having been slightly involved with intellectual property rights in the past I am not sure about the truth of this. However, Selden decided to come up with theirs, which most agree is less good. I dreamed up my double block method and originally used two pairs of single blocks shackled together. Reducing rope diameter does make a huge difference to friction.

I have the Z-Spars system on my 34 footer, but it definitely does not use in boom blocks, just one single line - they call it continuous line reefing. I have just reduced the from previous 11mm to 8mm. The sail has blocks at both luff and clew points but the luff blocks are sewn in using the type you find on furling main outhauls - they cannot twist anywhere.

 

[vyv_cox]

I have the Z-Spars system on my 34 footer, but it definitely does not use in boom blocks, just one single line - they call it continuous line reefing. I have just reduced the from previous 11mm to 8mm. The sail has blocks at both luff and clew points but the luff blocks are sewn in using the type you find on furling main outhauls - they cannot twist anywhere.

There was a diagram on the Z-Spars site that looked almost identical to mine on my website. Had a quick look now and it seems they may have dropped it in favour of the one you describe.

 

[Bav32]

I've got the Selden single line system,. Used to have a lots ofthis problems but all resolved.
1. as others have said, change tevery rope incuding the short ones to 8mm dynema / spectra.
2.With the boom off the boat, check that all the plastic rollers are in place if not get some.
3.The plates that slide (rollers ) can be too loose a fit and tend to rattle about and tip forward and jam. Pair of pliers or similar to straighten out the bends a little helps this and stops the rollers falling out.
4.Clean and lube inside of boom.
Problem fixed!

 

[Daydream believer]

Using Dyneema soft shackles with a low friction rinds, instead of blocks, means a lot less noise and less worry about twist, it also means smaller lumps on your head if one on the leech gives you a slap

dyneema soft shackle low friction ring - Google Search

How is it that a small friction ring where the distance between the 2falls will be closer together is less likely to twist. How is it that a block above the boom on the leach ( not that you need one on the leech) is going to hit you on the head before the boom does?

 

[PaulRainbow]

How is it that a small friction ring where the distance between the 2falls will be closer together is less likely to twist. How is it that a block above the boom on the leach ( not that you need one on the leech) is going to hit you on the head before the boom does?

Reefing blocks on the leech are pretty common, perhaps you need to get out more , or pay attention when you are out.

It's possible to sheet the boom in tight, but that doesn't mean the sail can't move.

 

[Daydream believer]

Reefing blocks on the leech are pretty common, perhaps you need to get out more , or pay attention when you are out.

Oh i know about them ok. Not many reports of people bashing their heads on them that high up the sail though& a lot more without than with i might respectfully suggest