Seaworthy or not Seaworthy

[peterjaw]

Good day Captains,
The term "seaworthy" is quite often be mentioned in describing a boat. However, I wonder if there is any numeric data to make
it more scientific? Or it is only a non-describable feeling?

My question is:　when I look at a boat's specification how do I judge if this is a "relative" more seaworthy boat than the other ones?

 

[BruceK]

I think you have hit the mark on the head. It's actually difficult to quantify. In Europe we have the Recreational Craft Directive - RCD and within it various categories defining standards.

• Class A - the boat may safely navigate any waters.
• Class B - the boat is limited to offshore navigation. (Winds up to Force 8 & waves up to 4 metres)
• Class C - the boat is limited to inshore (coastal) navigation. ...
• Class D - the boat is limited to rivers, canals and small lakes.

This is about the best one can guage what a boat will be like w.r.t. Sea Worthiness. Note Sea Worthy and Sea Kindly are not necessarily one and the same and there are many CAT C boats that can rub shoulders with Cat B boats.

 

[seasick]

The term is valueless and should be ignored , it is just advertising puff.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I've owned a number of boats over 30 yrs of pleasure boating and come to the conclusion that seaworthiness has very little to do with hull design, at least for the kind of seas we pleasure boaters might find ourselves in, and far more to do with a feeling of control for both the helmsman and crew, specifically

• A helm station that affords the helmsman good all round visibility from either a seated or standing position with effective wipers/windscreen wash and screen demisters
• A helm seat which adequately supports the helmsman when the boat is bouncing around in a seaway and which allows him/her to reach all of the major controls without having to stretch or stand up. In addition, a second similarly supportive seat for another person to assist with looking out and monitoring the radar
• An interior that doesnt fall apart when the boat hits a wave and by that I mean drawers that dont fly open, fridges that dont empty themselves on the galley floor and ceiling panels that dont fall off. There is nothing that puts the fear of God into an inexperienced crew more than if the boat is falling apart around them in a seaway even if it actually makes no difference to whether they'll actually survive the trip
• This is a personal one but for me a heavier boat is always better than a lighter one because they are thrown about that bit less by the waves

Yes the RCD is a guide to the intended purpose of a boat and, doubtless, other forumites will respond to this thread with learned dissertations about certain boats having a sharper hull deadrise, a shallower angle of attack or whatever but such boats are as useless as a chocolate teapot if you can't see out of them, you can't sit comfortably in them and the interior falls apart

 

[James_Calvert]

As a contrast to the well considered response above...

Seating for 3 in this one, with good some round visibility and hands on controls...
Rag and Famish Hotel shows her spinnaker style

 

[piratos]

Seaworthy has nothing to do with a boats ability to cope with the sea. Its commercial and used for commercial ships.
If a ship is not properly manned its not seaworthy,
If it has insufficient fuel its not seaworthy,
if its not properly equipped its not seaworthy,
if there is not enough food for the voyage, its not seaworthy
If the cargohold is unclean its not seaworthy
etc etc.

 

[Bouba]

As a contrast to the well considered response above...

Seating for 3 in this one, with good some round visibility and hands on controls...
Rag and Famish Hotel shows her spinnaker style

They are mad going what looks like a crazy speed that close to rocks?

 

[oldgit]

For me seaworthyness depends mostly on the condition of the boats machinery.
Will it get me there and back in one piece without any trouble or the need to call for assistance.

If you choose to go out in conditions likely to overwhelm the boat its not the boats fault.
Suspect inexperience renders any catagory useless . ?

 

[Bouba]

Seaworthy has nothing to do with a boats ability to cope with the sea. Its commercial and used for commercial ships.
If a ship is not properly manned its not seaworthy,
If it has insufficient fuel its not seaworthy,
if its not properly equipped its not seaworthy,
if there is not enough food for the voyage, its not seaworthy
If the cargohold is unclean its not seaworthy
etc etc.

That was my feeling too. The crew is everything. A boat caught out in dangerous conditions with a good experienced crew, so one man can be pumping out the engine room, another helming and another tying down everything, could survive. Whereas the same boat with just the captain will drown and probably so would the captain.
Nonetheless, if I was in very bad weather, I would rather be on one of those boats that are regarded as ‘seaworthy’, like a Nordhavn or Grand Banks.

 

[BruceK]

This was the distinction I was trying to make between sea worthy and sea kindly, but arguing semantics when the OP is clear on what he's after is counter productive

 

[BruceK]

I've owned a number of boats over 30 yrs of pleasure boating and come to the conclusion that seaworthiness has very little to do with hull design, at least for the kind of seas we pleasure boaters might find ourselves in, and far more to do with a feeling of control for both the helmsman and crew, specifically

• A helm station that affords the helmsman good all round visibility from either a seated or standing position with effective wipers/windscreen wash and screen demisters
• A helm seat which adequately supports the helmsman when the boat is bouncing around in a seaway and which allows him/her to reach all of the major controls without having to stretch or stand up. In addition, a second similarly supportive seat for another person to assist with looking out and monitoring the radar
• An interior that doesnt fall apart when the boat hits a wave and by that I mean drawers that dont fly open, fridges that dont empty themselves on the galley floor and ceiling panels that dont fall off. There is nothing that puts the fear of God into an inexperienced crew more than if the boat is falling apart around them in a seaway even if it actually makes no difference to whether they'll actually survive the trip
• This is a personal one but for me a heavier boat is always better than a lighter one because they are thrown about that bit less by the waves

Yes the RCD is a guide to the intended purpose of a boat and, doubtless, other forumites will respond to this thread with learned dissertations about certain boats having a sharper hull deadrise, a shallower angle of attack or whatever but such boats are as useless as a chocolate teapot if you can't see out of them, you can't sit comfortably in them and the interior falls apart

While I dont disagree all you are covering is already covered in the RCD and much more.

 

[Bouba]

This was the distinction I was trying to make between sea worthy and sea kindly,

This is certainly something we’ve all discussed before. With modern stabilization any hull can be made ‘sea kindly’ but will it be ‘seaworthy ‘?

 

[BruceK]

This is certainly something we’ve all discussed before. With modern stabilization any hull can be made ‘sea kindly’ but will it be ‘seaworthy ‘

I think you have hit the mark on the head. It's actually difficult to quantify. In Europe we have the Recreational Craft Directive - RCD and within it various categories defining standards.

This is about the best one can guage what a boat will be like

The answer to your question would be would the inclusion then enable the boat to meet the higher standard. Probably not. Then we are back to semantics and sea kindly vs comfort.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

While I dont disagree all you are covering is already covered in the RCD and much more.

Nobody told some of the boat builders then because many are still producing boats with inadequate helm positions and poor ergonomics

 

[25931]

The average sailing boat is probably more seaworthy (in extreme conditions) than the average motor boat.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Maybe there are forumites more familiar with the RCD than me but a quick search of the document only brings up this on helm ergonomics

For motor boats, the main steering position shall give the operator, under normal conditions of use (speed and load), good all-round visibility

Extremely vague

 

[Bouba]

Maybe there are forumites more familiar with the RCD than me but a quick search of the document only brings up this on helm ergonomics

For motor boats, the main steering position shall give the operator, under normal conditions of use (speed and load), good all-round visibility

Extremely vague

A good reason to get rid of the lower helm on a flybridge boat

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

A good reason to get rid of the lower helm on a flybridge boat

And helm upstairs where its cold and wet? No thanks!

 

[Mr Googler]

And helm upstairs where its cold and wet? No thanks!

Snowflake ???

 

[Alicatt]

A good reason to get rid of the lower helm on a flybridge boat

There is also a bit in the directive about having shelter for the crew, not got the document in front of me at the moment to see the actual wording