Scotland can go sailing on 28th May?

[cherod]

Police Scotland are turning back caravans on the M74 and - I believe - giving any who make it along the A75 to Dumfries the chance to spend one night in the Tesco car park there and then head south again ...

long overdue

 

[wully1]

I’m going to walk across the marina car park and put the sails on the boat.
Over the weekend we are going to sail her round to her mooring - about 10 miles.

Im also going to go out on the SUP and foil board again.

PROVIDING we get the go ahead from Scot Gov on Thursday.

We might also get our house renovation complete - we had 4 days contractor work left prior to moving in when we went into lockdown....

 

[awol]

It's a pity that summer is already over! I too hope to be afloat next week, St Nicola willing.
One wee chink of hope was the message today from CCC offering early registration for Scottish Series 2021. A bit painful 'cos we would have easily won overall in last weekend's breeze!

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Email from QHM Faslane, port is not closed to leisure traffic.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Communication from BMF regarding Scottish Return to Sailing: -

“British Marine and British Marine Scotland are pleased to welcome the release of the Scottish Government’s route map to easing the coronavirus lock down restrictions.
This route map provides a plan for gradual opening up of the lock down measures, through 4 phases following the lockdown stage.
Progress will depend on the continued reduction in the rate of infection and subject to this, the decision to progress from lockdown to easing of some measures will be made by the Scottish Government next Thursday, 28th May.
Review of progress will continue on a 3 weekly basis.
The route map sets out the steps to be taken but does not follow exact timescales. Progress will be gradual and incremental and in response to control of the virus.
Remote and flexible working will remain the default position where possible for the first 3 phases but Phase 1 will see the resumption of non-essential outdoor workplaces.
While not specifically mentioned in the guidance, British Marine interprets this to release the marine sector to restart outdoor operations in boatyards and marinas and of course, launching of boats.
This is subject to the relevant new guidance on health and safety, social distancing and COVID 19 measures.
Non-essential indoor non-office-based workplaces may resume in phase 2 (factories, warehouses etc) and phase 3 will see the reopening of non-essential indoor office workplaces, again subject to relevant guidance on safe working procedures.
This means marina offices, receptions etc will not be able to re-open for some time and other measures will be required for customer liaison.
It is important to note restrictions on travel will remain in place;
In Phase 1, people will be permitted to travel short distances for outdoor exercise but are advised to stay within approx. 5 miles of their local communities.
Phase 1 provides for unrestricted outdoor exercise (adhering to distancing measures) and non-contact outdoor activities in local areas.
Assuming all forms of recreational boating are included in this, customers may return but will be limited by travel restrictions until phase 3.
As the government does not permit people to leave their homes to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose, this suggests that staying overnight on a boat must not happen.
TYHA has provided guidance for marinas which is being updated regularly to reflect changing circumstances and British Marine is working with groups within the industry to prepare guidance for specific sectors.
The TYHA and British Marine guidance relates to the situation in England and the devolved administrations have differing responses to the coronavirus pandemic but much of the information in relation to safe working procedures is relevant across the UK. Please do check against information relevant to Scotland.”

 

[TLouth7]

Communication from BMF regarding Scottish Return to Sailing: -

Nice to see a statement from a professional organisation regarding their position on sailing. Unfortunately this only addresses professional work as that is the BMF's remit. Without something concrete from the RYA it is going to be very hard for clubs to reach a position.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Again another poor written document that misleads the public does not give clarification and is potentially trying to lead people through poor choice of language
This only confuses people and create arguments and potential flare points with the sailing community its marina and the general public
Not only that the police have no clue either

Assuming all forms of recreational boating are included in this, customers may return but will be limited by travel restrictions until phase 3.
There is no limit to travel it is a guildline only using this language confuses people and has no basis in law


As the government does not permit people to leave their homes to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose, this suggests that staying overnight on a boat must not happen.
Suggests is not a word that has any legal binding , nor is it clear or makes any sense , what arre the rules simple to say but using ambiguous language again confuses and creates disorder,

There is a reason the law is written with such painful language , this is to allow no wiggle room these documents are nonsense and lead to confusing rhetoric,
Again I will say again no government will discriminate the relative poor living in estates in the city who are still trapped by the 5 mile rule it is nonsense and needs to be stopped by so called intelligent organisations .

 

[Deleted member 36384]

FG, the limit is guidance, but whatever way you slice and dice it, we are being asked to apply a distance limit by the Scottish Government. I assume the purpose of the limit we are being asked to follow is to reduce the probability of infection rate increasing to allow the road map to be fully implemented. Or have I misunderstood the purpose of the guidance on limits?

 

[FlyingGoose]

FG, the limit is guidance, but whatever way you slice and dice it, we are being asked to apply a distance limit by the Scottish Government. I assume the purpose of the limit we are being asked to follow is to reduce the probability of infection rate increasing to allow the road map to be fully implemented. Or have I misunderstood the purpose of the guidance on limits?

Do you think a 5 mile guildline is fair, if I live in Castlemilk Glasgow and want to go for a nice walk in the Trossachs to get out of the city and cramped conditions , but I cannot , all that open space and hills to walk , pretty easy to avoid people
But I live in Leafy Callender with my 6 bedroom house and I can then go up the hills all around me within 5 miles and enjoy myself
It Disadvantages the poor and hence why Ms S has said it is a guildline as they do not want Glasgow to empty to Ayr Beach so they are trying to communicate to the public to use common sense,
There will be no rush at my Marina which is 60 miles away, as I have said before I have applied the lock down rules very stringently and followed the perfectly clear guidelines and rules , now I am going to my boat because it says I can , clearly if it was going to be slammed I would consider my actions , but I know it will not and am using my common sense which the Government is asking us to do , via the guidelines
This is not about me and my boat , it is about fairness for all and if this was a Law it would be the most discriminating law ever seen in the UK since the Dark ages, hence why it is a guildline.
Common sense is asked for in the guildline this is what I interpret it as, but organisations , are using poor language to communicate this causing more confusing circumstances,
Golf is pretty clear, but what if you do not live 5 miles near a golf club ,are you then not allowed to go golfing and only those within 5 miles can enjoy the exercise the fresh air and a small social grouping,
Tennis is allowed how many of us live 5 miles from a tennis court.
Fishing is allowed, that a good one 5 miles from a river your stuffed mate

So I live in central Glasgow , in a council flat , no Garden, I am not 5 miles from any outdoor activity, even though I am A Keen hill walker , love to Fish ,and wild swim. and have a wee dinghy at the coast, but I am not allowed .
Sorry I keep ranting about this , but its me and my fairness trait for all , can make me waffle

 

[Deleted member 36384]

It is not about fairness if you equate that with equitableness, but it is fair in a Scottish citizen perspective, if you equate it as an attempt to limit transmission. It is about controlling a pandemic and the start of a journey back to some semblance of normal by following a road map to achieve that. I think your context of fairness is wrong when applied to the roadmap.

However, I guess the majority will apply the 5 mile, Phase 1 guidance as they see the common weal in the matter i.e. the majority think it is fair to help the country move along the road map to greater relaxation of the guidance. I don't agree with your argument but I appreciate how some may feel tension because those who live less than 5 miles from their boats, can take the opportunity to use them. I can wait a bit longer, I have come this far in helping my country limit the damage caused by the pandemic.

 

[awol]

I am hoping that the "5 mile" aspect is clarified before Friday. "Hiking" is an allowable activity .... but for only 5 miles? Cycling has been allowed throughout without a 5 mile limit - keeping it local I took as a 20-30 mile circuit but now it is to be 5 miles?

 

[FlyingGoose]

It is not about fairness if you equate that with equitableness, but it is fair in a Scottish citizen perspective, if you equate it as an attempt to limit transmission. It is about controlling a pandemic and the start of a journey back to some semblance of normal by following a road map to achieve that. I think your context of fairness is wrong when applied to the roadmap.

However, I guess the majority will apply the 5 mile, Phase 1 guidance as they see the common weal in the matter i.e. the majority think it is fair to help the country move along the road map to greater relaxation of the guidance. I don't agree with your argument but I appreciate how some may feel tension because those who live less than 5 miles from their boats, can take the opportunity to use them. I can wait a bit longer, I have come this far in helping my country limit the damage caused by the pandemic.

So if fairness was not part of this road map can you tell me why we all suffered when over 57% of deaths were in care homes and 75% were for the over 75 year olds
Clearly these were the vulnerable and in isolated buildings the threat of the virus actually killing off Scotland was nil, but the population suffers in unison to protect these people because it was unfair in the age discrimination laws to tell the aged to lockdown ,
So the nation went along the economy suffered the youth will suffer in the long term even though they were fine from the virus that was fair
Now your telling me that those that have sacrificed 3 months of their life to protect a small minority of the Scottish pollution are not allowed to travel more than 5 miles to get out and walk up a hill with no one there and that is fair , when the middle classes out in the suburbs can enjoy the countryside
You post of fairness is not right, those in the Estates did their bit for the country, now they are being so called denied because there poor
Disgusting

 

[CapPugwash]

The reality is that people will ignore the rules they don't like just as they are already doing and have been for a while. My mother, for example, told me she went for a soicaly distanced walk with my cousin. She thought she was obeying the rules. I am pleased that she will be allowed to do this as of Thursday but it is silly that she isn't already. Its well accepted that the risk of this activity is so low. It is also plain that traveling in ones car to your boat is equally safe as are a number of of activities that would improve peoples lives significantly. If Nicola dosn't allow sensible acitvites then the masses will continue to ignore her and will do what ever they want. If she wants to maintain control then she needs to be sensible about this.

 

[dimdav]

Do you think a 5 mile guildline is fair, if I live in Castlemilk Glasgow and want to go for a nice walk

You could head up to Whitelee windfarm and stroll over the moors for hours though...
From Drumchapel you have the Kilpatrick hills
Easterhouse the seven lochs
Central Glasgow seven lochs, Pollok country park, Darnley to the dams, Kirkie canal walks

You're right its not fair but then its not supposed to be, its restricting yes but that is the point.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I am not going to discuss this any further with you FG as the implication that the road map limits are due to "there poor Disgusting" suggests to me that we are poles apart in positions. Thanks for your previous inputs and discussion.

 

[FlyingGoose]

You could head up to Whitelee windfarm and stroll over the moors for hours though...
From Drumchapel you have the Kilpatrick hills
Easterhouse the seven lochs
Central Glasgow seven lochs, Pollok country park, Darnley to the dams, Kirkie canal walks

You're right its not fair but then its not supposed to be, its restricting yes but that is the point.

why are they being restricted have they not been fair to the population of Scotland , the younger generation and poor are more disadvantage through this virus than the retried, and middle class
Do you think that is what he SNP Want
No schools open Universities closed ,youth unemployment way higher than the average, Jobs in the leisure industry decimated and a higher proportion of the younger generation work there , now those are also denied supposedly by those that want to protect the care homes , why are you going into them.
What about the sick and the infirm you planning on meeting any of them to spread the virus ,
Scotland the last country in Europe to unlock the lockdown, because the R number is high , but you cannot use an R number from care home deaths as these are isolated so the R rate number in the community as a whole is very low , hence outside is allowed as there is no spread of this virus in terms of people allowed outside
So those that wish to follow 5 miles go for it it is your right , but never condemn those that want to go beyond this and accuse them of not doing the right thing they have sacrificed 3 months some will never work again , give them a break
What makes me sad is the middle classes on here with their boats some in retirement , some furlough with wages some still working , with absolute no insight to how others live and struggle daily, and sitting on their pedestal looking down scorning those that dare go 10 miles to climb a hill

 

[TLouth7]

For me there are three considerations that inform what I will do:

- What I can be fined or prosecuted for. I understand that guidelines and advice will not apply here.
- What organisations allow me to do. Personal opinions are irrelevant if sailing clubs stay closed.
- What I feel is morally acceptable. This must be informed by the spirit of the guidelines, if not the letter.

Issues of fairness and wishful thinking will not change the first two points, and I will do my best to separate them from the actual risks my actions pose to the Scottish community when considering the third point.

 

[FlyingGoose]

For me there are three considerations that inform what I will do:

- What I can be fined or prosecuted for. I understand that guidelines and advice will not apply here.
- What organisations allow me to do. Personal opinions are irrelevant if sailing clubs stay closed.
- What I feel is morally acceptable. This must be informed by the spirit of the guidelines, if not the letter.

Issues of fairness and wishful thinking will not change the first two points, and I will do my best to separate them from the actual risks my actions pose to the Scottish community when considering the third point.

Exactly common sense , which is what the guidelines ask for, it is called risk assessment,
Asses the risk to others if there is little chance of you personally affecting others do what you want , within your own moral guidelines
But the point I am trying to make is do not shun those that have kept this country going , the postpeople the checkout staff, the pharmacies , Band Q low paid workers , who now have the opportunity to go out and enjoy OPEN spaces , without the moral high ground people condemning them
If you really wanted to stop the spread of this virus you would have shut the care homes down early and locked down the elderly , but it never happened , why!
Going to your boat is less risky than going to a super market , going to your boat leaves you less risk than going to a McDonalds , do not put those that are able to risk asses with confidence to those from England and the scenes we see at Bournemouth beach, a population of over 60 million in England , to 5 million in Scotland
There is plenty of spaces to go to and never meet a another soul.
If travelling to your boat puts others at risk DO NOT GO ,if it does not then go forth and enjoy

 

[dimdav]

Do you think that is what he SNP Want

No they just want to be different from England

Scotland the last country in Europe to unlock the lockdown, because the R number is high

Its lower than a lot areas of England, has been all along.

So those that wish to follow 5 miles go for it it is your right , but never condemn those that want to go beyond this and accuse them of not doing the right thing they have sacrificed 3 months some will never work again , give them a break
What makes me sad is the middle classes on here with their boats some in retirement , some furlough with wages some still working , with absolute no insight to how others live and struggle daily, and sitting on their pedestal looking down scorning those that dare go 10 miles to climb a hill

The only ones I do truly feel sorry for are those cooped up in tenements or high rises and I certainly wouldnt begrudge them a wee breaking of the rules but as I said theres plenty close by they can do.

I personally have no intention of heading the 30 miles to Rosneath any time soon.

 

[JumbleDuck]

For me there are three considerations that inform what I will do:

- What I can be fined or prosecuted for. I understand that guidelines and advice will not apply here.

You are obliged not to leave home without a reasonable excuse, and I believe that the courts would take account of guidelines and advice when deciding what was reasonable. So, the question you have to ask yourself is "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do yah ... old chap?