Scimitar 21ft Saro one design

[veedub1955@]

This is the builder's plate for Sunshine.View attachment 94423

David could you post some detail pictures of the mast heel etc, we haven't had ours rigged yet and the last owner hadn't either, just so we know we are on the right track, thanks

 

[David Balkwill]

This won't be very helpful for you I'm afraid since My rig is totally different. Yours will just step like a big dinghy, and then you will set up the standing rigging to get the mast in the right place and with enough rig tension to keep the jib in the shape you want. Mine has no fixed backstays since the boom goes beyond the transom, so forestay tension comes from the running backstays. All good fun, especially when gybing when it's windy.

 

[veedub1955@]

Ah OK thanks, looking forward to get it all setup

 

[David Balkwill]

Here are a couple of documents to get you started.

 

[veedub1955@]

Fantastic David, thank you!

 

[veedub1955@]

Keel bolts ready to check the torque. On the keel drawing it's showing as 5/8 bsw, the standard torque for this size is 175 ft/lb does this sound correct?

 

[David Balkwill]

Keel bolts ready to check the torque. On the keel drawing it's showing as 5/8 bsw, the standard torque for this size is 175 ft/lb does this sound correct?

Well the torque setting would depend on the grade of the fastenings, and I'm not sure how you could check that. Add in a factor for corrosion and paint and you could be way off. My gut feeling is to say leave them alone, or do the job properly and remove and replace with new ones.
Here are mine, untouched since I've had the boat.

 

[K9787]

I bought SHASHKA in January last year, Hull no. 71 and sail no. 76 built by Gloster Saro Ltd Beaumaris Registered no. 921055. She had been effectively abandoned and I wanted to save her from the chain saw. She was re-launched in the Medway earlier this month. When acquired she had engine beds and a stern tube but nothing else. She now has a Yanmar 1GM10. It has been a relief to find this thread as I was beginning to think I was the only owner! I see that someone was offering copies of builder's drawings and of a trailer which I should like to see, but being a new member I have yet to work out out to make contact.

 

[DownWest]

I bought SHASHKA in January last year, Hull no. 71 and sail no. 76 built by Gloster Saro Ltd Beaumaris Registered no. 921055. She had been effectively abandoned and I wanted to save her from the chain saw. She was re-launched in the Medway earlier this month. When acquired she had engine beds and a stern tube but nothing else. She now has a Yanmar 1GM10. It has been a relief to find this thread as I was beginning to think I was the only owner! I see that someone was offering copies of builder's drawings and of a trailer which I should like to see, but being a new member I have yet to work out out to make contact.

If you click on their name, you can send them a PM. Oh, and Welcome to the site..
DW

 

[David Balkwill]

I bought SHASHKA in January last year, Hull no. 71 and sail no. 76 built by Gloster Saro Ltd Beaumaris Registered no. 921055.

Welcome on board so to speak. The engine set-up sounds fascinating. Where is the shaft ? On the centre line or offset ?
I'm also interested by the Registered number. Any idea what register this refers to, maybe Lloyd's ?
In the sales document they refer to the Lloyd's type approval which says that each boat was supplied with a certificate so maybe that's what it is.
Love to see some photos of your boat.
David

 

[David Balkwill]

Look what I found !

 

[K9787]

Where did you find it? At first I thought it was one of my photos as it shows the boat lying exactly where I bought her, and her condition especially that of her great iron rudder which I should like to replace in the Winter.
You said that Sunshine's rudder had been moved aft (although this is not clear from the drawing of her profile with the new rig) and I was wondering by how much and whether you have any photos to show the shape and how it is supported at the bottom?
Attached are a couple of pictures to show what she was like inside, one after the hull had been cleaned and repainted and one of the engine installation.

 

[David Balkwill]

I must have saved the photo when the boat was advertised. The photo is from March 2018. It's the only thing I have on her in my collection of stuff for all the boats that I've been putting together since I bought Sunshine in 2015.
Chris Libby did the conversion for Sunshine in the eighties. He cut away the coaming, moved the mast step forwards, moved the rudder backwards, added material where the keel joins the hull forwards, added the bowsprit and the gaff rig, added running backstays, fitted a new deck locally where the old coaming used to be and made a new coaming from teak faced ply. He also cut through the hull just aft of the rudder and moulded an outboard well. The cut out part of the hull is at the bottom of the "plug", so when the motor isn't fitted, the hull shape is exactly as before. The rudder is about 30cm further aft than it was. The keel has been extended aft so unless you know, you wouldn't see that the boat had been modified. He said this made her less twitchy, and I guess that the added sail area made that a good idea.
Since then I've had a new suit of sails made (with a loose footed main), and I've added a dangly pole (like a National Twelve dinghy), controls for jib halliard tension, peak halliard tension, topsail sheet, main clew outhaul, and of course the dangly pole. I mostly sail solo, so all this is led back to me and I can adjust things without leaving the helm. The dangly pole is fantastic. Leach twist control on reaches, and wing on wing downwind, with a big gain in balance and power.
Here's a picture of the hull part way through fairing and painting a couple of years ago.

And here's the cockpit, more room than the original, and quite a different feel. You can see the hatch over the outboard well.

 

[David Balkwill]

Sorry, I missed your question about the bottom of the rudder. There's a stainless fitting that links it to the keel. Not very strong by the looks of it, but it's been working since the eighties so it must be strong enough.

 

[K9787]

Thank you for both replies. I did not know SHASHKA had been advertised: I passed her every time I went to my club and eventually took pity on her. The bottom fitting for the rudder is a rather massive steel cup so perhaps your s/s one dates from the major conversion.
SUNSHINE looks very elegant and, by the sound of it, fast.
I removed the GRP beam which supported the mainsheet horse as I too sail mostly single handed and it would have been a major obstruction if you needed to go forward smartly. I planted a wooden beam on the after deck and mounted the track on it.
Did the 4 photos I thought I was sending actually arrive?

 

[David Balkwill]

No photos I can see. I had to take screenshots of mine to reduce the size so they would load on here. There's also a choice as to whether you want them in the text or at the end of your message. Maybe it doesn't work if you don't choose.
Yes, Sunshine is competitive. We won a trophy last year from four regattas. The first one on the sea showed how tired the sails from the eighties had become. She wouldn't point as high as the other keelboats we were racing against, and didn't make up for her rating. Then with new sails we were beating the same boats both for line honours and on handicap when racing on the Seine near Paris.
Chris Libby says she's "a witch" !
Starting on time would have helped of course ! Those are Aile keelboats and a Dragon, the Metre classes were starting after us and looked bloody impressive as they caught us up towards the top of the beats. Pointy things they are.

New sails, that's better

The topsail's too small, I've just had a new one made. The cruisers are Belougas. Slippery light displacement hulls with gunter rigs. Very pretty.

 

[David Balkwill]

Well, we were in front for a moment !

 

[K9787]

Thanks for the beautiful photos. In an earlier post someone said photos cannot be posted by new members which is presumably why you did not receive them. I can find nothing about this in he Ts and Cs so emailed YBW for an answer a couple of days ago but no reply to date. Seems an odd rule.

 

[DownWest]

Thanks for the beautiful photos. In an earlier post someone said photos cannot be posted by new members which is presumably why you did not receive them. I can find nothing about this in he Ts and Cs so emailed YBW for an answer a couple of days ago but no reply to date. Seems an odd rule.

New members get some restrictions, like not posting photos. Likely anti spamming. Get a few more posts in and they should work.

 

[David Balkwill]

I lifted Sunshine out today to give her a scrub. She lives all year on the river so needs a clean from time to time. Anyway, it let me take a few photos of the keel and rudder pintle. You may be able to work out where the modifications were made, with the rudder a good 30cm further aft and the added piece at the front of the keel.
The hull was treated with copperbot, but I don't know when. Certainly looks like it's ready to get some love and attention !