RYA theory

[Buck Turgidson]

I can only tell you what worked for me. That was online ds theory then two weeks comp crew/day skipper. Nice holiday around the straits of Gib on the side then a few yearly yacht charters then bought my own boat and sailed it down to and around the western Med. Then online YM theory then a week hours building on a bigger boat (lets not get into that mess again) a week prep and YM practical. I started the Ocean theory course online at the beginning of the year but I have to say my experience was not good as the courseware had recently been updated and there were a lot of errors which led me to put it on hold and go do some real astro on the boat this summer. I may finish the ocean theory but it's not a priority as my real goal was to learn astro and I did.

The theory is not rocket science and the sailing should be fun if you're doing it right

 

[roblpm]

What has changed over the years just out of interest?

At the risk of causing outrage......................

What has changed is navionics on your phone............... secondary tides on your phone.............. etc



(I do have coastal skipper theory and practical by the way. And if I was going anywhere serious I would have at least two phones, and at least two gps's with aa batteries, and spare aa batteries etc etc etc)

 

[dulls]

I have met a few people who had passed the competent crew course . I wouldn't trust those I met to be competent with a lilo in the local swimming pool let alone on a yacht, If the OP can sail, that is a great start. If not, there are a load of smaller yachts that are sailed solo where the owner/helm would be more than happy to take crews out for a sail either cruising or racing.

Nothing wrong with the competent crew cse. i suspect many who do it dont then get on a boat for a few months so will have got very rusty.

 

[dulls]

At the risk of causing outrage......................

What has changed is navionics on your phone............... secondary tides on your phone.............. etc



(I do have coastal skipper theory and practical by the way. And if I was going anywhere serious I would have at least two phones, and at least two gps's with aa batteries, and spare aa batteries etc etc etc)

I agree, the reality is we all, well 99% of us go by the sats from A to B. I still use clearance bearings though as my gps stuff has always been down below except when my mate would bring his ipad.

 

[Birdseye]

Could you tell more about the RYA instruction that everyone must pass day skipper? I've never heard of that.

That came to me direct from the then head of training referring to the DS shorebased course. The RYA attitude was that people should be encouraged not judged when just starting off , and provided they took the course seriously ( obviously you dont pass someone who rarely runs up) then encourage is what you did.

The RYA have always had split motives with the training courses. On the one hand they want to encourage people to get to an acceptable standard. On the other hand a significant part of their income comes from the courses which is why there were an unnecessarily large number of them

 

[Sandy]

Try
1. Some Independent self study Day Skipper theory material from books
2. Competent Crew
3. Complete your Independent self study Day Skipper theory material from books
4. Day Skipper Practical
5. Do some actual sailing as a skipper
6. Classroom course Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster Coastal theory
7. Coastal Skipper Practical

If you study the DS theory ahead of comp-crew you'll get more out of the comp-crew as well - as there will likely be people onboard doing their DS during your comp-crew.
There is a fair chunk of terms that need to sink in, so you can speak the sailing language

Would recommend comp crew practical ahead of DS, making sure you are familiar with the evolutions (raising / lowering sails, tacking, gybing, etc) and in particular getting comfortable with the proper names for different bits of string and where they are physically on the boat. Especially given during DS you are going to be asking other people to be performing these evolutions.

Personally, I'd forget the DS Theory and go straight to YM Theory. There is not a lot of difference in the two and YM Theory can be used for DS Practical. BUT, I am Scottish and look for value for money.

 

[dulls]

That came to me direct from the then head of training referring to the DS shorebased course. The RYA attitude was that people should be encouraged not judged when just starting off , and provided they took the course seriously ( obviously you dont pass someone who rarely runs up) then encourage is what you did.

The RYA have always had split motives with the training courses. On the one hand they want to encourage people to get to an acceptable standard. On the other hand a significant part of their income comes from the courses which is why there were an unnecessarily large number of them

You are correct in that everyone passed even the lad who did not have a clue on my course. Day skipper theory is good preparation for the YM theory. I was thinking that starting from scratch to do YM theory while not impossible especially if you have been doing some type of navigation would be a pain for the instructor to bring you up for speed. I did my YM exam twice as i failed the first time. I used my portland plotter back to front for some reason and got the sets and drift wrong. I was tired having just crossed the English Chanel and docked the boat about an hour previously and combined with being thick to boot it was a perfect storm. I passed it about a week later.

 

[capnsensible]

That came to me direct from the then head of training referring to the DS shorebased course. The RYA attitude was that people should be encouraged not judged when just starting off , and provided they took the course seriously ( obviously you dont pass someone who rarely runs up) then encourage is what you did.

The RYA have always had split motives with the training courses. On the one hand they want to encourage people to get to an acceptable standard. On the other hand a significant part of their income comes from the courses which is why there were an unnecessarily large number of them

I understand about encouraging people, particularly in the early days. that's good advice. I must say though that the 'everyone must pass' thing is more likely to be an attitude of the less well managed RTC's?

Regarding income, I'm not quite getting that. Course income goes to the Recognised Training Centres who pay an annual fee. The RYA sells training materials and certificates but I wouldn't have thought that it's that significant. The extra courses, some anyway, were driven,I understand, by a request from some schools to find ways to use their boats and instructors to the max to increase wonga.

 

[capnsensible]

Personally, I'd forget the DS Theory and go straight to YM Theory. There is not a lot of difference in the two and YM Theory can be used for DS Practical. BUT, I am Scottish and look for value for money.

Hiya. I see that as a regular comment. I think people forget, once they have the knowledge, who these courses are designed for. When you are starting, Day Skipper is a good grounding for most people.

 

[Birdseye]

I understand about encouraging people, particularly in the early days. that's good advice. I must say though that the 'everyone must pass' thing is more likely to be an attitude of the less well managed RTC's?

I know where you are coming from. We had one instructor who had favourites and liked the power of playing God. If he didnt like a candidate then they could get failed whatever. And a pal who was ex plod, highly competent sailor, but with a legalistic view of things and wanted to fail someone for secondary tides on the DS course - which didnt include secondary tides anyway. But ultimately the courses are voluntary and until the YM practical level dont entitle you to do anything anyway ie they arent a licence. . So encouraging people to learn rather than to go back to school seems the best approach to me. Surprising how many people are frightened by exams and easily put off.

 

[capnsensible]

I know where you are coming from. We had one instructor who had favourites and liked the power of playing God. If he didnt like a candidate then they could get failed whatever. And a pal who was ex plod, highly competent sailor, but with a legalistic view of things and wanted to fail someone for secondary tides on the DS course - which didnt include secondary tides anyway. But ultimately the courses are voluntary and until the YM practical level dont entitle you to do anything anyway ie they arent a licence. . So encouraging people to learn rather than to go back to school seems the best approach to me. Surprising how many people are frightened by exams and easily put off.

Agree. This is when the Principal and / Chief Instructor earn their money coaching their Instructors. Most people seem to dislike feedback forms but when encouraged, student responses can really help.

Mrs S. Is the Chief Instructor for a well known online navigation school that you can do at home ? So the theory courses crop up most days in our normal chat.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Agree. This is when the Principal and / Chief Instructor earn their money coaching their Instructors. Most people seem to dislike feedback forms but when encouraged, student responses can really help.

Mrs S. Is the Chief Instructor for a well known online navigation school that you can do at home ? So the theory courses crop up most days in our normal chat.

Hope she's done a proper audit of the ocean theory course now!

 

[capnsensible]

Hope she's done a proper audit of the ocean theory course now!

Lots of complaints from schools when the course was first put out by the RYA. And yup I'm gonna blame them. The new course notes are fantastic, a massive improvement over the old stuff. I was very familiar with all that. Then we found loadsa mistakes, along with everyone else in the worked examples. . At that stage, the producers had realised and put out reams of corrections. The school Mrs S works for sweated a lot to sort it out. I got involved a bit myself. Dogs doodahs now. ?

It's fast becoming a very popular course. Loadsa lads and lasses need it as a pre req. for Master 200 and all the other more ambitious tickets.

 

[LadyInBed]

Whichever way you go, this is a good, free on-line nav course Advanced navigation courses - sailing schools Greece and the Greek islands

 

[Sandy]

Hiya. I see that as a regular comment. I think people forget, once they have the knowledge, who these courses are designed for. When you are starting, Day Skipper is a good grounding for most people.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Perhaps it is where you are doing your sailing; Lake Solent is very different to the west coast of the UK.

I've always needed to use secondary port calculations, which from my recollection is only lightly touched on at DS level. We now benefit from Secondary Port Apps on mobile phones, but being old school I like to be able to work it out on a bit of scrap paper.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Lots of complaints from schools when the course was first put out by the RYA. And yup I'm gonna blame them. The new course notes are fantastic, a massive improvement over the old stuff. I was very familiar with all that. Then we found loadsa mistakes, along with everyone else in the worked examples. .

I think we've discussed this before. I started the ocean theory course in 1990-ish but gave up because the quality of the materials was so bad and at least one of the astro-navigation examples was demonstrably wrong, by about a hemisphere. I'm in the middle of writing some worked examples in a completely different field (fluids) at the moment and everything I write is read by three other people, and a maths checker and then proof-read three times. It's very easy to make mistakes when writing stuff so you really do need rigorous and detailed checking.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Imho the practical courses provide a lot of value in the informal chat with both a highly experienced tutor and the other students. Make use of it and ask all the dumb questions. There is also some benefit from learning the official way and then developing your own style rather than just learning on the job. Take the opportunity to train in a completely different location to your normal sailing - we were sailing in Australia (big distances, remote and no other ships) and trained in the Solent - boats everywhere!
The theory is important and applies just as much if you use Navionics - you still need a grasp of safety, navigation, comms, weather and all the rest.
I did a combined theory & practical DS course and found it good - the theory was put straight into practice.

 

[Daedelus]

If I remember whatr the RYA said the essential nav course was intended for those who would go to sea anyway, such as leaisure fishermen who didn't want (or need) Day Skipper theory but would find a bit of training on charts tides and weather forecasts etc useful in a limited way. Advantage with this course is that it used to provide a cheap plastic plotter for use on charts in RIBs etc.

If you have some knowledge of boats so that cleats and sheets are not totally alien concepts it is easier. I would agree with most here that you can probably do DS out of books by yourself but YM/Coastal Yachtmaster theory is at another level (reasonably enough) and the course really benefits from a little instructional help. When I did YM theory you were just given straightforward questions such as in what depth to anchor given that you want x metres clearance at Low water, now there is much more focus on how do you go about planning a passage and has a long exam based on all the factors involved. I have to say this is to my mind a considerable advance. Not sure how they are doing on electronic charts etc now as I know they ditched the electronic chart plotter simulation but the RYA recognises that most will use GPS at the very least and more probably a plotter, tablet or mobile phone for most of the nav. However they do teach the basics so that when all the batteries fail at once or the signal is lost you can still get where you were wanted.