sfellows
Active member
As the owner of a Trintella 45 I would say that these are excellent! But I also concur that a Hylas 44 would fit the bill. One for sale @£109K at Ancasta (but currently under offer so maybe too late.....).
Retirement cruiser 40-48' - thoughts?
- Thread starter Nom de plume
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mjcoon
Well-known member
Part of the modern assumption that complex mechanical bits won't give more trouble than fixed architecture?
dunedin
Well-known member
Out of interest, if primarily intending to sail with 2 people, why such a large boat?
In many harbours it can be easier fitting in with a slightly smaller boat.
Personally I prefer a newer and higher spec 38-42 footer rather than a bigger boat (in the same way I prefer a smaller but more expensive car).
In many harbours it can be easier fitting in with a slightly smaller boat.
Personally I prefer a newer and higher spec 38-42 footer rather than a bigger boat (in the same way I prefer a smaller but more expensive car).
lustyd
Well-known member
No, it just means more of the space you pay for is available for use. A sugar scoop wastes about 3' of boat length which in a marina is an expensive bit of plastic. Having the swim platform fold down means you only lose about 5" and often also makes the back of the boat safer at sea while the platform is closer to the water. I'm not sure I'd consider a hinge to be overly complex - if I did I doubt I'd be able to cross an ocean ?
Laser310
Well-known member
This can be set up on most boats
but one issue to consider is that heavier cruising boats designed for large overlapping genoas can be piggish with the smaller jibs needed for self-tacking setups.
there is often plenty of wind in the caribbean.., but the med can be more variable
dankilb
Well-known member
I’d personally argue that there’s a sort of ‘intangible’ difference in the feeling of spaciousness in the accommodation of more ‘traditional’ mid-40-footers (e.g. the previously mentioned Hylas, Moody, IP examples) when compared to something 38’-42’ say (inc. the Southerly and other DS designs).
...and I say that as an owner of a 42’ AWB, which also comes in a very popular DS version (both of which still ‘feel’ to me more like 38’ or so!).
And not only is it just an intangible feeling, it also translates into more privacy, stowage space, usable passage berths, options for washing machines/aircon/gennies, etc. that can really extend options for easier/comfy longer-term cruising.
I’d go as far as to say these are different categories or ‘classes’. For me it’s a difference between ‘big’ boats and big boats.
...and I say that as an owner of a 42’ AWB, which also comes in a very popular DS version (both of which still ‘feel’ to me more like 38’ or so!).
And not only is it just an intangible feeling, it also translates into more privacy, stowage space, usable passage berths, options for washing machines/aircon/gennies, etc. that can really extend options for easier/comfy longer-term cruising.
I’d go as far as to say these are different categories or ‘classes’. For me it’s a difference between ‘big’ boats and big boats.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
All the old people on the West Coast of Scotland seem to have Nauticats,
RupertW
Well-known member
They do and that is really bad for reversing up to a harbour wall in a side wind where you need some welly until the stern ropes are on. Of course people could have the platform up and the stern rendered whilst they more but then they can‘t easily step ashore.
lustyd
Well-known member
It's funny you say that, when I was looking at AWBs recently I couldn't really put my finger on the difference between 36' and 50' aside from an extra sofa or sometimes two (and obviously everything being a little bit larger) so completely agree that there's an ephemeral line in the sand between AWB and cruiser that's not really related to capability but rather suitability. I have no idea why AWB designers think sofas are so desirable, as you say there are plenty of other useful things to add to a boat!
mjcoon
Well-known member
Do you really think that the hinge is the only bit of engineering involved? Even a hinge on the outside of the boat nearly at sea level needs looking after...
I recall sailing with a boat owner (50 footer) in the Med who had a bit of a problem with gears when reversing up to a quay. There were just lockers on the fixed transom platform to take the crunch!
Frogmogman
Well-known member
What an enjoyable prospect.
A bit more precision on the budget would be helpful (even though one can surmise to a certain extent from the boats mentioned as top and bottom of the bracket. How handy are you at fixing stuff ? (to have an idea of how important the age of the boat is likely to be).
The obvious choice to me would be an Oyster 46, but this may well be over budget; or an older Holman and Pye Oyster 45 such as this one. One owner example, looks well cared for...
Oyster 45 For Sale | Oyster Yachts
As a totally left-field choice, how about an RM 1350 ? I suspect the forecabin might fall short of your requirements, but these are great boats, light and quick, with a versatile cutter rig and lovely big workable cockpit; I particularly like the inboard positioning of the primary winches, (I can't understand why more builders don't do this). Certainly easy access to the dock/dinghy.
The interior has a really refreshing modern loft-style. For liveaboards, there's even a proper wardrobe. One aft cabin on these is often a fitted out as a technical room/workshop (as here, with two sea berths outboard of it. There's also a pilot berth tucked alongside the chart table). With her quasi deck saloon arrangement, you could steer from the chart table with the autopilot. Maybe not a well known brand across the channel, but here in France they are highly sought after and seem to keep their price pretty well.
RM 1350-2010
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Quandary
Well-known member
But they do not seem to sail them much (with one exception) and there are some really old people that do not have one.
dankilb
Well-known member
Absolutely...
I think a centre cockpit also makes a huge difference down below. It's sometimes said a CC wastes some of the best space on the boat, but over a certain size it actually makes the most of it IMO: Wide, full-height walkthroughs with space to tuck away a decent heads and a proper galley; spacious engine room, potentially with access from all sides and space for a decent genset; if you're lucky, a galley island if that's your thing; etc.
And all of this saves the best beam for the main living area and for the aft 'master' cabin.
In contrast, on our aft cockpit AWB the 'sofa syndrome' definitely rears its head! Our boat is beamy - over 4m/13ft. And this does give a great sense of space down below. But taking up the best of the beam we've got a hideous and impractical round settee - presumably designed with the sole aim of accommodating all 9 people or whatever the boat can theoretically sleep. We've also got a heads taking up valuable space in the beamiest part of the boat (that could otherwise be tucked beside a centre cockpit).
I know it seems obscene to be talking of space so much, but for serious cruising your living space can really make a difference (especially in terms of what you can reasonably install/store/accommodate within in). I appreciate the OP isn't proposing doing all the passage making etc. themselves, implying it might not be a full-time endeavour - but anything more than a few weeks is 'long-term' in my book, especially if you want (as I do!) as many of the comforts of home as possible.
Admittedly I do plan to live aboard full-time with our current boat, together with the First Mate and both trying to hold down some work, at least for a period of a few years. So that is my 'benchmark'.
lustyd
Well-known member
Obviously not. But if you think a folding transom on a boat is complex then electric winches and water makers will look like black magic. Rupert's point is a good one about harbour walls, but maintenance is not a problem in the context of everything else on a modern boat.
lustyd
Well-known member
I kid you not, I looked at a 46' that had a sofa on the port side and the same large round sofa and table to starboard. I can't imagine how naughty you'd have to be to be placed on the sofa behind the sofa away from the fun! A 50' boat had this same arrangement, but with a third sofa behind the chart table area. Not one of them had a sensible office work area, nor workshop. And then I watch what Uma have done to theirs and I think...why not have a yoga space? ?
dankilb
Well-known member
Yup, our boat was designed with an additional 'island' sofa/bench seat - admittedly, much smaller than the main one, but still taking up a whopping amount of floor space. The only rationale I have ever thought for this is that it does provide a slightly better hand-hold than the table, but there are always other things to hold on to.
Sensibly, a previous owner got rid of the extra sofa. Somewhere long down my own to-do list will be to re-design/build the settee as a conventional rectangle, with a passage berth and sensible stowage inside. I could easily trim the aft end so it juts out less. I also plan to replace our (knackered) saloon table with something 'coffee table' size - Esper style.
By the end, we'll also have plenty of floor space for yoga or whatever else you might fancy! Seeing as I can't have all the stowage or passage berths I'd ideally like (without tearing the otherwise nice-enough interior apart) - I can at least reward us with masses of floorspace!
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
North of Ardnamurchan it's Nauticats as far as the eye can see. I will be very tempted myself in due course.
dunedin
Well-known member
rotrax
Well-known member
Island Packet SP Cruiser Mk 1.
Works for us.......................................................
Nom de plume
Well-known member
Thank you for all your generous and detailed replies.
In no particular order I'll address some of the points raised (apologies for the summaries - there is too much for a detailed reply to everything posted!).
1. We have nothing actually against aft cockpits - all our previous boats have been AC - it's just that we are now feeling our age and 'communal' living aboard is no longer attractive - we want at least part of the boat to be 'our space' if and when we ever get visitors / kids and the Centre Cockpit designs seem to split up the boat better into two separate living areas with, as originally said, at least one large side access double. Either a proper 'sofa' or two 'armchairs' ( a la Hylas 44) also appeals to ageing bones as does a seat in the master cabin.
2. Budget is not specific (sorry) - we are downsizing in terms of boat length (from 19 meter), displacement (30+ ton) and budget (about 50%) so nothing in our short list (or anything kindly suggested so far) is going to concern us in any way - (ditto complexity).
3. We often find that our current 'pilot house' is the coolest place on the boat if the sun is beating down from above but with some breeze and all ventilation open - I very much agree with Geem's comments on this. Deck space can replace cockpit if we're desperate.
4. Yes, as a retired marine engineer I can fix almost anything onboard - but I no longer want to! Ageing bones again - they still work in emergency but have limited operating hours left so I try to use them sparingly!
5. I should in theory really like the Southerlies - but they don't do it for me, never have, cannot explain why.
6. We have nothing actually against long trips - it's just that we are not desperate to do them anymore, we have a long bucket list and limited time. It might even make more sense to get two slightly cheaper boats and base one either side of the pond - I can see the numbers not being wildly different and it being a lot less of a planning headache - I'm reading the other threads on dock-express type costs with interest.
I shall spend the evening looking at all your further suggestions (some nice one's there!) - keep them coming by all means
In no particular order I'll address some of the points raised (apologies for the summaries - there is too much for a detailed reply to everything posted!).
1. We have nothing actually against aft cockpits - all our previous boats have been AC - it's just that we are now feeling our age and 'communal' living aboard is no longer attractive - we want at least part of the boat to be 'our space' if and when we ever get visitors / kids and the Centre Cockpit designs seem to split up the boat better into two separate living areas with, as originally said, at least one large side access double. Either a proper 'sofa' or two 'armchairs' ( a la Hylas 44) also appeals to ageing bones as does a seat in the master cabin.
2. Budget is not specific (sorry) - we are downsizing in terms of boat length (from 19 meter), displacement (30+ ton) and budget (about 50%) so nothing in our short list (or anything kindly suggested so far) is going to concern us in any way - (ditto complexity).
3. We often find that our current 'pilot house' is the coolest place on the boat if the sun is beating down from above but with some breeze and all ventilation open - I very much agree with Geem's comments on this. Deck space can replace cockpit if we're desperate.
4. Yes, as a retired marine engineer I can fix almost anything onboard - but I no longer want to! Ageing bones again - they still work in emergency but have limited operating hours left so I try to use them sparingly!
5. I should in theory really like the Southerlies - but they don't do it for me, never have, cannot explain why.
6. We have nothing actually against long trips - it's just that we are not desperate to do them anymore, we have a long bucket list and limited time. It might even make more sense to get two slightly cheaper boats and base one either side of the pond - I can see the numbers not being wildly different and it being a lot less of a planning headache - I'm reading the other threads on dock-express type costs with interest.
I shall spend the evening looking at all your further suggestions (some nice one's there!) - keep them coming by all means