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Report pushes for light dues and registration for leisure boaters

Alfie168

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Joined
28 May 2007
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49,695
Location
Nidderdale
Here we go.....The tax disc for boats......they've been thinking about how to get at us for ages. Hang on, its only a few weeks since they announced the closure of some lighthouses as they were no longer used due to the advance in modern navigation methods.

So how many leisure boaters go out at night and use these lights? A tiny fraction of those who venture on the water in total, so the majority of leisure boaters will be paying for something they don't use. Apologies to those who regularly night sail, but it must surely be the case.

Its a load of s*ite isn't it. :mad:

Tim
 

Searush

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14 Oct 2006
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- up to my neck in it.
Hmm, given that a fair proportion of cars on our roads are un-taxed & uninsured despite the existence of ANPR cameras how do they think they can implement this? Another dozen UKBA cutters? A Coastal police force? It is as unenforceable as e-borders, they just don't understand what they are trying to do, do they?
 

nonitoo

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26 Feb 2007
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Boat Location was Dover UK
So how many leisure boaters go out at night and use these lights? A tiny fraction of those who venture on the water in total, so the majority of leisure boaters will be paying for something they don't use. Apologies to those who regularly night sail, but it must surely be the case.

Tim
I agree that the system would be virtually unenforceable, for instance, at what size would the taxing start, 2 mtrs - 5 or 10 mtrs ?

However "light" dues are a bit of a misnomer. The tax covers all buoys not adopted by individual ports as well as navigation marks (not necessarily lit).

Did you also know that UK Light Dues also fund the Irish (south as well as north) navigation lights as well, goodness knows why.

Tom
 

colvic987

Active member
Joined
2 Sep 2003
Messages
2,412
Location
north west england
Quite an easy thing for them to do, invent a law and tax to pay, start charging people,

If you dont pay up then your a criminal,

Send in the heavies, your nicked sonny??

Isnt that how the english law and the politicians work these days...


OH, and by the way, your only a low tax payer, so no legal aid for you, only for governmental fraudsters...
 

stav

Member
Joined
7 Aug 2002
Messages
855
Location
Jersey
Am I right in thinking that big ships pay light dues through port charges etc, surely these charges are passed on to the customer.......That would be us? So we have to pay twice? And how do light charges compare to ******* bonuses?

I guess they want us to buy boats pay marina fees and then have no where to go anyway...

I will finish my dinner now!
 

BlueSkyNick

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29 Apr 2003
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11,770
Location
Near a marina, sailing club and pub
It will never happen.

Don't worry, everything is going to be alright ....

The RYA has written to the Government to express its concern that many of the report's assumptions made in relation to leisure boating are flawed.

"[The RYA] has highlighted our concerns that the authors of the report have based their recommendations and conclusions on false assumptions and not taken due account of the views of stakeholders in the recreational sector," it said.

The DfT, meanwhile, has said that the report is "only a start", and that "before we make any revisions to the system of light dues we will carry out a full consultation with everyone who is affected and that will certainly include [RYA] members".
[/endofsarcasm]
 

colvic987

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2 Sep 2003
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Location
north west england
The DfT, meanwhile, has said that the report is "only a start", and that "before we make any revisions to the system of light dues we will carry out a full consultation with everyone who is affected and that will certainly include [RYA] members".




Wasn't that the same waffle used for the 'red diesel debate' and look where that got us!!!!
 

Baggywrinkle

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6 Mar 2010
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8,356
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Ammersee, Bavaria / Adriatic & Free to roam Europe
Mutiny!!!

So we've got income tax and NI on everything we earn, then there's VAT on the boat and all it's contents, there's the marina fees, the harbour dues for anywhere you visit - except for the few anchorages that are free, but they're going to be filled with moorings or declared nature reserve no-go areas.

Our fuel is now taxed, there's e-borders, and a ban on a whiskey while anchored. It now costs squillions to make a trip across the pond, because you're irresponsible if you do it on a shoestring - and anyway there's a minimum size limit if you want to join the ARC (which also costs a fortune).

Now we're going to have to subsidise the lighthouses, buoys and navigation marks because the shipping companies don't want to foot the bill any more.

We're supposed to be a seafaring nation but this generation has had the spirit of adventure well and truly kicked out of it. Everything is becoming so comercialised, out to make a quick profit while simultaneously being strangled by red tape and taxes.

The French wouldn't put up with their government proposing such nonsense - blockade the ports!!! :mad:
 

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
32,842
There is nothing new in this proposal. A similar proposal came up about 15 years ago and disappeared as being unworkable. If you were commissioned to write a report on funding of navigation aids you would be failing in your duty not to point out that a substantial potential user group makes no direct contribution and you would have to suggest a sort of practical way in which it could make a contribution. Atkins estimation is that a flat fee of £100 pa on leisure craft that operate (or could operate) outside harbour limits could raise £5-6m pa. They also point out the difficulties of identifying those who should contribute and enforcing collection.

Read the report which will dispel some of the misconceptions already evident in posts on this thread.
 

Searush

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14 Oct 2006
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- up to my neck in it.
I already pay over £100 pa to the Caernarfon Harbour Trust to cover the cost of maintaining the harbour & bouyage/lights in the Menai Straits, as does everyone else who moors in our end of the Straits.
 

theforeman

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6 Sep 2005
Messages
1,472
choice phrase from the report -
"to include those pleasure craft not already captured by the present system "......

we are the enemy.
 
Joined
26 Nov 2009
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Location
everywhere
We will always be at risk of this sort of tax until the traditionalists amongst us admit that lights are no longer necessary or even relevant to boaters. Neither is most buoyage for that matter
 

PeterGibbs

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3 Sep 2001
Messages
2,113
Location
N London, and boat in Suffolk
Part of a pattern, eh?

Hmm, given that a fair proportion of cars on our roads are un-taxed & uninsured despite the existence of ANPR cameras how do they think they can implement this? Another dozen UKBA cutters? A Coastal police force? It is as unenforceable as e-borders, they just don't understand what they are trying to do, do they?
But 100% observance of every tax is not the mission, 80% will do nicely to fund the perfect state !

How's this then? Think TV licence. Think boat registration. You will have to be registered (for E borders purposes, of course) You then receive a letter that warns you inspectors are visiting marinas now and if your boat is not registered you will be fined up to £1k; and if your light dues are also not in order you will be fined another £1k. You are x miles away at home wondering if a snoop is at that very minute patrolling the pontoons lining you up for a nasty summons.

Actually, you don't have to visit many marinas to put the frighteners on boat owners. If TV licences are anything to go by you'll get at least an 85% yield just because of what a fine will do to your credit rating.

It's what Blighty has come to. I stopped for 2 minutes on an empty taxi rank nearby last week, remaining in the car. Unbeknown to me a photo of my car was taken by a patrol. A demand for £100 parking fine arrived today. What conceivable social or traffic good, apart from raising money, does this promote?

Do the fools who run this country think this all adds to the sum of human happiness, that this is the mission, that this is as good as it gets? That we will, like the eternal frog being brought up to the boil in the pot, just take it all lying down?


PWG
 
T

timbartlett

Guest
Hmm, given that a fair proportion of cars on our roads are un-taxed & uninsured despite the existence of ANPR cameras how do they think they can implement this? Another dozen UKBA cutters? A Coastal police force? It is as unenforceable as e-borders, they just don't understand what they are trying to do, do they?
Actually, the number of unlicensed vehicles on our roads is considerably less than 1%.

The DVLA has been using flawed survey methods to inflate the figure for years, but it was not until ANPR cameras became more widespread that the scale of their "error" became known.

Even then, the DVLA was reluctant to revise its figures downwards, and was severely criticised by the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee for being "disingenuous" (i.e. lying) as a result.

Even after the PAC report http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmpubacc/557/557.pdf was published, the DVLA management continued (and continues) to set performance targets for its penalty collectors that are based on its old, inflated figures, and that can only be met by collecting penalties from motorists who have not actually done anything wrong!
 
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